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Author

A modest proposal

mikl law

27-Apr-2004
4:49:17 AM

As trad and sports climbing are so different
- as people get caught up in the numbers and can tick sports 25's easily and still have huge epics on trad 20's
- because of this they don't try as many trad routes and don't learn the craft
- as numbers mean something to people in terms of motivation and acheivement
- as ultimately grades in sport climbing are to save yoyu from embarassment, and grades in trad routes are to save you from dying

Why not use a different grading system for each? Trad gets an overall grade (Ewbank or E grade). Sports gets a French grade.

Curtain Wall is 24 (overrall grade,and probabaly a sandbag at that)
Have a Nice Flight is 7a (no risks and a few moves by bolts)

Otherwise doing HANF (25), and then imagining you can cruise up Curtain Wall (24? I haven't seen a guide in a while) would be an obvious error for anyone.
Mikl


Wonderdog

27-Apr-2004
8:26:28 AM

Mikl, my initial reaction to your idea was... why? But as the coffee seeps into my brain and helps to lift the veils of drowsiness, it starts to grown on me somewhat. I still think that the guidebook description is probably enough in terms of adding comment on the boldness or otherwise of a route (ie I don't think that adding E grades is neccessary), having French grades on sport routes would clearly deliniate between they two (valid) styles of climbing.


phil box

27-Apr-2004
8:30:53 AM

Ah but what would you do with a retrobolted trad route?


Wonderdog

27-Apr-2004
8:35:18 AM

Yes, very droll... trad routes have some bolts sometimes, but I think that we all recognise a sport route when we see one... or do we? :-)


sticky

27-Apr-2004
8:51:11 AM

It makes sense - the difference in commitment between a Frog 21 crack and a Blueys 21 sport route is pretty high. (er, I imagine, having never dragged my carcass up a 21 at Frog).

But the simple addition of the word 'Sport' to a grade, where applicable, could do the same thing, in my opinion. Those routes named with the 'Sport' suffix would only be graded according to the technical difficulty of the climb, rather than protection, exposure, and all the other things that Ewbank alluded to in his original spiel.

[As an addition, if I were king, those climbs graded with the 'Sport' suffix would have to be the consumer bolted Nowra routes, rather than a gnarly runout Girraween style bolted route. Just cos it's all bolts doesn't necessarily make it a sport route].

Just my two bob worth.


hex-TROLL

27-Apr-2004
9:58:15 AM

Hexie--- what have you started ?...

Mikl--- Don't confuse modesty with mediocrity...

Luv, HEX

gfdonc

27-Apr-2004
10:52:19 AM

Umm .. OK .. so I fear it's time to ask:
What defines a Sport route?
The presence of a bolt?
The presence of 3 bolts?
No runouts more than ?? metres?

James

27-Apr-2004
11:01:26 AM

a sport route would be one where there is no critical trad gear. But like sticky said, discretion is needed (ie some bolted Buffalo slabs surely wouldn't count as 'sport' due to the 6m+ runouts).


hex-TROLL

27-Apr-2004
11:15:04 AM

On 27/04/2004 gfdonc wrote:
>Umm .. OK .. so I fear it's time to ask:
>What defines a Sport route?
>The presence of a bolt?
>The presence of 3 bolts?
>No runouts more than ?? metres?

Never fear---Hex is here !

'...a Sport route...' ? --- halfabrainandarakadraws.


Rupert

27-Apr-2004
12:56:12 PM

On 27/04/2004 gfdonc wrote:
>Umm .. OK .. so I fear it's time to ask:
>What defines a Sport route?

Mmm true - how do you define/grade/label a climb at Ben Nevis (for instance) where there is one bolt for the entire 50m pitch? I wish it was a 'trad' route - cause I'd LOVE to place even just a few of those wires I lugged up. Is that a 'sport' route? For that matter can a slab even BE a 'sport' route?


Richard

27-Apr-2004
1:04:55 PM

A grading system for sports climbs? A different system for slabs? Another one for bouldering? The ewbank system for trad climbs?

Then how about a new grading system for soloing - the runouts would no longer need to be taken into acount!

"The Ewbank system stunned the world with its simplicity" - seems like some people aren't stunned enough. No system is perfect.

gfdonc

27-Apr-2004
1:15:25 PM

1. Wot Richard said.
2. OK so on the basis that a sport route is "bolts only" does Digit Dancer at Ben Cairn qualify? What about A Question of Ethics at You Yangs?
This is a genuine enquiry, I don't consider myself a 'sport climber' but am trying to work out the definition.
- Steve
ps both those routes existed before 'sport climbing' was invented.
.


hex-TROLL

27-Apr-2004
2:21:26 PM

Monkpuz is PURE ' sport ' --- the sling ' counts ' as a bolt...


hex-TROLL

27-Apr-2004
3:01:31 PM

Pink would probably be the ideal...

deadpoint

27-Apr-2004
3:01:32 PM

Holds will be removed monthly and washed to eliminate the ethical dilemma of using chalk.


hex-TROLL

27-Apr-2004
3:03:20 PM

One second sooner---COOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

adamk

27-Apr-2004
3:17:54 PM

Mikl - why are you on chockstone at 4am in the morning?


nmonteith

27-Apr-2004
4:01:18 PM

Because he lives in the USA.

gfdonc

27-Apr-2004
4:04:11 PM

And in case you forgot, "4am in the morning" is a tautology.

adamk

27-Apr-2004
5:22:57 PM

Thankyou at 5:30pm in the evening.

There are 96 messages in this topic.