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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

 Page 8 of 15. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 100 | 101 to 120 | 121 to 140 | 141 to 160 | 161 to 180 | 181 to 200 | 201 to 220 | 221 to 240 | 241 to 260 | 261 to 280 | 281 to 288
Author
Tiger Wall - Dribble Bolting?
One Day Hero
21/08/2009
2:55:03 PM
On 21/08/2009 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>You are not one of those confused and weird history buff choppers are
>you?
>(Hehx3)
>
Nah, I just like the asthetics of carrots, but nice stainless ones. No interest at all in keeping rusty old death bolts for historical reasons......except sometimes :)
kieranl
21/08/2009
2:55:08 PM
On 21/08/2009 One Day Hero wrote:
>Don't get me wrong. I might be using strong language, but I'm not really
>stressing this stuff. I'll just state what I think, then chop what I don't
>like next time I'm in the area :)
What an arrogant piece of work.

nmonteith
21/08/2009
2:55:27 PM
On 21/08/2009 One Day Hero wrote:
> I hope there aren't
>fat fixed hangers or rings where the carrots used to be on Swinging!!.......choppety
>chop chop

They have been fixed hangers for several years.
One Day Hero
21/08/2009
3:02:22 PM
On 21/08/2009 nmonteith wrote:
>They have been fixed hangers for several years.

Goddamnit! How am I going to find any time to climb down there amongst all the work which needs doing?
Wendy
21/08/2009
3:03:56 PM
Maybe carrots are being put in by cheapskates and sold to us as aesthetic/historic?

nmonteith
21/08/2009
3:04:35 PM
How often do you go there if you havn't seen the FHs on Swinging? I don't see the point of choppity chop chop if you hardly even climb there. At least do the nasty work on your local crags where you can police it.
Wendy
21/08/2009
3:06:37 PM
Yeah, those nasty, turn Araps into a sport crag locals will just replace all your hard work when you leave.
kieranl
21/08/2009
3:06:38 PM
On 21/08/2009 One Day Hero wrote:

>Goddamnit! How am I going to find any time to climb down there amongst
>all the work which needs doing?
Who is this idiot?
One Day Hero
21/08/2009
3:08:15 PM
Maybe natural gear climbing is a construct of the gear companies to increase their sales and the progressive thing to do is ringbolt every route at araps
kieranl
21/08/2009
3:09:22 PM
Enogh of this fool's dribble. I'm going for a walk at the mount.
One Day Hero
21/08/2009
3:10:31 PM
Umm, spent all of May there. Just didn't get on that route this time around

IdratherbeclimbingM9
21/08/2009
3:11:56 PM
On 21/08/2009 kieranl wrote:
>On 21/08/2009 One Day Hero wrote:
>
>>Goddamnit! How am I going to find any time to climb down there amongst
>>all the work which needs doing?
>Who is this idiot?

This is where the thread gets hijacked into 'anonymous vs known users re validity of opinions' thread ...
One Day Hero
21/08/2009
3:12:07 PM
On 21/08/2009 kieranl wrote:
>Enogh of this fool's dribble. I'm going for a walk at the mount.

Don't forget to pack your drill, it might rain and you'll need to add bolts to get home safely!
Wendy
21/08/2009
3:15:49 PM
On 21/08/2009 One Day Hero wrote:

>
>Bolts are being put in for convenience then sold to us as 'safety'. This
>offends me because I like to see as little metal in the rock as possible
>while still not wishing for things to be too dangerous. I also like to
>do arcane things such as rig belays, scramble down, find descent options,
>solve problems. I believe these are very useful things to learn and I believe
>the environment at araps 15yrs ago was conducive to gaining these skills........cohesive
>and constructive as, eh bro?
>

As this is half an effort to say something sensible .... Most anchors here were put in to halt erosion on the descent routes. Only a few are being "sold" to you as safety. There are still plenty of belays to rig, and obscure routes to do involving epic route and descent finding. These are all very useful skills in the wider world of climbing, and you can also do plenty of them at less busy crags in the Grampians. Araps has LOTS of traffic and is being looked after (note: looked after, as in, cared for, protected, damage minimisation) with this in mind.

>But I've said all of that before and Kierans drill continues to whirr.
>I don't think pulling his bolts out will stop him but talking has achieved
>nothing so chopping is the next thing to try.

In, out, in, out ... I think history all over the world has demonstrated in ineffectiveness of this approach. Also the general disaproval of maverick action.
One Day Hero
21/08/2009
3:28:05 PM
On 21/08/2009 Wendy wrote:
>As this is half an effort to say something sensible .... Most anchors
>here were put in to halt erosion on the descent routes. Only a few are
>being "sold" to you as safety.

I don't buy this at all, sorry. Most climbs at araps have been extensively defoliated. 'Erosion' is part of what happens at popular places. Our point of difference here is that you are prepared to accept 'erosion' on routes but not on descents. I am prepared to accept 'erosion' on routes and on descents. I fully support the erosion control measures such as steps in gullys etc. Where were the erosion problems which required rings on Swinging, Christian Crack, Trojan, Lamplighter, Chinese Algebra, the corner below Anxiety?

The bolt war problems are caused in equal parts by the "in's" and the "out's". I consider the addition of all of the above bolts to be maverick action. Are you somehow suggesting that unconsulted adding by Kieran is morally superior to unconsulted chopping by me?
Wendy
21/08/2009
4:04:37 PM
On 21/08/2009 One Day Hero wrote:

>
>I don't buy this at all, sorry. Most climbs at araps have been extensively
>defoliated. 'Erosion' is part of what happens at popular places. Our point
>of difference here is that you are prepared to accept 'erosion' on routes
>but not on descents. I am prepared to accept 'erosion' on routes and on
>descents. I fully support the erosion control measures such as steps in
>gullys etc.

I would have thought it was obvious that rock "erodes" far less than gullies and that "defoliation" on rock has less follow-on effect than "defoliation" removing grasses and shrubs which are holding the dirt in place.

>Where were the erosion problems which required rings on Swinging,
>Christian Crack,

Freely admit I am unaware of the justification of these ones.

>Trojan, Lamplighter, Chinese Algebra, the corner below
>Anxiety?

Most of these were replacing ugly old bits of tat that just got added to incrementally in an effort to make them safe. I think that's a good idea too.

>
>The bolt war problems are caused in equal parts by the "in's" and the
>"out's". I consider the addition of all of the above bolts to be maverick
>action. Are you somehow suggesting that unconsulted adding by Kieran is
>morally superior to unconsulted chopping by me?

I'm not sure that Kieran is responible for any of the bolts you are currently worked up about. Maybe you should check out these things before blasting off at him. Some of the rebolting at Araps was freely discussed (sorry if you missed out, but, you after all, weren't here). Strangely enough, some of us even heard from Simey about the offending bolts before he put them in. Others, I might have simply missed out on (i am after all regularly not here over winter) and some may have been done inappropriately. Araps still has a history of bolts and other odd anchors mid cliff and top of cliff, so it's not that new. See Toad in the hole, British beat, no future, coming on chris, Tannin, horn piece and so on so forth.
BA
21/08/2009
4:46:48 PM
On 21/08/2009 One Day Hero wrote:

>Ummmm, no. I don't think I'll bugger off. Just because you live in Nati,
>it doesn't mean you own the crag. I just moved to Wollongong, does that
>mean I can now do whatever the f--- I please at Nowra because I'm a local?

How would we be able to tell the difference? (Ducks quickly and puts hands over head. I've never been there and therefore don't know what I'm talking about.)

I've got five years longer at Araps than Kieran and there were NO rap anchors and lower-offs had never been heard of when I were a lad. You rapped off a bollard after doing Trapeze and you sometimes did Trapeze again to retrieve your rope

Sarah Gara
21/08/2009
4:58:57 PM
>Fish boy.wrote: Even if people die in certain places climbing Sara, it doesn't mean we have >to put bolts in. Honestly, who cares if it makes beginners feel safer? I'm a little above a >beginner and feel unsafe/scared often, it is ME that has to step it up, not the rock that has >to be damaged!
>Get out there and take responsibility for yourselves....

i agree in principle I'm against bolting But those bolts are there now. and i sure as hell couldn't get 40 diff placements at the belay...

I mean even if the bolts were chopped the rock would still have been damaged. What does the rock look like after bolts removed?


-On 21/08/2009 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>On 21/08/2009 Sarah Gara wrote:
>>Those bolts will make a lot of beginners feel a lot safer at a didfficult
>>place to put gear. fair enough I coped but I had sols rack if I was
>on my own i wouldn't have.

>A couple of questions to satisfy my curiosity. ☺
>
>Would you have chosen to do this climb if you were using your own normal
>rack?

>[I note you wrote on 18/08/09;
>>Had i been climbing on my rack -one set of nuts and hexs]

No i probably wouldn't have attempted the climb on my rack - I would have stayed at the organ pipes and done some shorter routes.

>With the benefit of hindsight, do you think that climb could be done differently
>by yourself (and still feel reasonably comfortable/safe), regarding how
>you use the pro available on your own rack?
>☺

I think I would still place the same ammount of gear. I get scared easy and that climb was well within my climbing abilty but I like placing gear...

Was it on here that someone wrote... " if it's below your waist it's not a runner" -I, most of the time live by that philosophy.

Right I'm gonna go get drunk! Catch you all later - don't post too much guys... It takes too long to catch up and I'm really busy at work at the mo.

Happy climbing. x


IdratherbeclimbingM9
21/08/2009
5:06:46 PM
Thanks for the reply.
Wendy
21/08/2009
5:10:24 PM
On 21/08/2009 BA wrote:
> when I were a lad. You
>rapped off a bollard after doing Trapeze and you sometimes did Trapeze
>again to retrieve your rope

Ah, the inconvenience!! I was contemplating the topic of convenience to distract myself from the menial tasks of sweeping and cutting wood and realised climbing is full of things for our convenience (and to compensate for our incompetence). We have campgrounds because we can't do minimal impact camping. We have flushing toilets because we can't crap in the bush. We have guidebooks cause we can't look at the cliff and make a reasonable assessments. We have cars because we can't be bothered catching public transport/hitching/walking/riding to the cliff. We have friends and sticky rubber cause we can't climb in hobnail boots and place machine nuts. Chalk cause we get psyched out by sweaty hands. Belay devices cause we're to wussy to go waist belays anymore. Ad infitum. Where do we stop?

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There are 288 messages in this topic.

 

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