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Ben Nevis - Shame on you. What a waste of a crag.


pmonks

11-Aug-2009
1:53:25 PM

On 11/08/2009 ajfclark wrote:
>I thought cams protected people not abducted them... at least when they
>don't fall apart... ;-)

Depends what substance you've been imbibing before you start the ascent. ;-)

gfdonc

11-Aug-2009
1:59:58 PM

On 11/08/2009 ajfclark wrote:
>I've only a recent migrant to Victoria. What happened with Hanging Rock?
> It that really a seat belt spool hammered in to the rock?

Yup. See? See? See? That's what I call HISTORY!


jkane

11-Aug-2009
3:34:58 PM

On 11/08/2009 ajfclark wrote:
>I've only a recent migrant to Victoria. What happened with Hanging Rock?
> It that really a seat belt spool hammered in to the rock?

It's privately owned and I think they are worried about litigation. My understanding is that the VCC has approached them a few times but they are simply not interested. Presumably they make enough money from the non-climbing tourists.


ajfclark

11-Aug-2009
3:42:00 PM

On 11/08/2009 jkane wrote:
>Presumably they make enough money from the non-climbing tourists.

I certainly didn't understand when I drove in that it'd cost $10 to get out...

12-Aug-2009
3:52:51 PM

On 11/08/2009 gfdonc wrote:

>Sorry to sound like I'm hijacking but I think the point about preserving
>history on some - let's face it, not well bolted nor well-frequented -
>cliff in Western Vic is fatuous. Alis got new chains recently, anyone
>complain about the loss of history?

Being an aged sort of climber I remember when Ali's did not have chains. Being less aged I remember when Noddy and Steve Monks replaced the bolts on Ali's - are you now saying it has been re-jigged again?

But back to preserving history - I think you should all get rid of your 'sticky rubber' and wear EB Super Grattons, tie the rope directly around your waist, use a few Number 2 hawser laid rope slings with reamed out machine nuts on them for protection and belay with the rope wrapped around your waist while wearing gardening gloves. That would preserve history, but would it preserve the modern day climber? ;-)

Oh, this is a complaint about the loss of history (including chains being put on Ali's in the first place).


muki

12-Aug-2009
6:20:31 PM

Gday Bill, the chains on Alis were replaced after the Monks and Lockwoods effort.
Matheson was responsible for replacing some bolts that were poorly placed M&L.
I was the most recent refurbisher of the chains, and due to the popularity of this particular path to the top it has probably been polished by the huge amount of traffic since you last managed an inspection.
My wish to repair the sorry condition of these chains was due to finding a French family belaying directly off the chains, Mum Dad and the kids all hanginging of a belay that had some links of chain with less than a millimeter of rusty mild steel left in them !

as for the loss of history, I have the remnants of what is left of the chain if you would like to hang them up in your museum as a display of the type of crap that some less experienced climbers like to call fixed gear.

hero

12-Aug-2009
6:24:15 PM

"some less experienced climbers"

ouch.

collective experience of all climbers who have done alis with the old chains versus bomber pro

that's a cage match I'd like to see

One Day Hero

12-Aug-2009
9:20:17 PM

On 12/08/2009 hero wrote:
>collective experience of all climbers who have done alis with the old
>chains versus bomber pro
>
>that's a cage match I'd like to see

Well, at some point the old chains would have gone on their own. I kinda liked the fact that you still had to solo a bit (or rope up) with the old chains......however, it was pretty slick and sooner or later someone was going to slip and splat themselves. I reckon it was a fair call by the Bombster to rejig the thing


gordoste

12-Aug-2009
11:07:12 PM

HIJACK!

JohnK

14-Aug-2009
9:49:44 AM

Ok, well back to the original thread then - I'll bite at this one.

Although I have not climbed there, have wanted to visit the crag for some time myself, it sounds a bit like the bolting practices at the You Yangs! - great rock (although some might argue against this), great location, and some great climbs ruined in my opinion by poor bolting practices... aka: lots of ground fall potential on many climbs and run out climbing making you feel like you are soloing most of the time - my first climb there was a Grade 15 climb which after one piece of pro and a piton turned into a 20 meter run out job without pro and any more bolts meaning you would hit the ground if you fell.

So it sounds once again like climbs put up by people glimbing at least 10 grades harder and bolting on lead - although admirable, when safety is compromised then that cannot be a good thing. In my mind, whether bolted or protected with pro, the lead climber should always feel safe on a climb if they are likely to take a fall - not suggesting bolting every meter off course - but going to the other extreme cannot be good especially for those that are leading at their max. Just my 2 cents worth anyhow.

John K.

kieranl

14-Aug-2009
10:25:01 AM

I haven't climbed at Ben Nevis for a long time but it's worth pointing out that the original routes put up in the early seventies weren't bolted on lead because the climbers were feeling bold.
That was simply the prevailing ethic of the time. Bolting from abseil was considered unethical so bolting on lead was the only game in town. So, to contemplate putting up the routes you had to be prepared to run it out to a spot where you could stand and drill for however long it takes you to hand-drill a bolt in granite. And the guys who were doing this were only leading 18/19 and the occasional 20. On a climb like Peeping Tom for example they were lead-bolting only a 3 or 4 grades below their leading capability.


ajfclark

14-Aug-2009
10:28:40 AM

On 14/08/2009 kieranl wrote:
>for however long it takes you to hand-drill a bolt in granite.

What's the ballpark for that?

gfdonc

14-Aug-2009
11:02:00 AM

It used to take me about 20 minutes per bolt for a 3/8'' hole.


nmonteith

14-Aug-2009
11:08:58 AM

On 14/08/2009 gfdonc wrote:
>It used to take me about 20 minutes per bolt for a 3/8'' hole.

It used to take me upwards of 30 minutes for a 12mm hole in the volcanics of the Glasshouse Mtns.

dalai

14-Aug-2009
11:24:20 AM

On 14/08/2009 gfdonc wrote:
>It used to take me about 20 minutes per bolt for a 3/8'' hole.
>

Depended on the granite, but around 20 minutes was good going...I lent my hand drill out years ago and am not concerned I never got it back. Much happier to fire up the Ryobi ;-)

widewetandslippery

14-Aug-2009
11:33:10 AM

The Ryobi, the Hilux of drills. Hows yours running these days dalai? Mine still goes and a certain Mr Hill uses his in anger often.

Paz

14-Aug-2009
6:49:40 PM

On 14/08/2009 JohnK wrote:
In my mind, whether bolted
>or protected with pro, the lead climber should always feel safe on a climb
>if they are likely to take a fall

maybe you should just boulder?


Chuck Norris

14-Aug-2009
7:50:10 PM

On 14/08/2009 nmonteith wrote:
>On 14/08/2009 gfdonc wrote:
>>It used to take me about 20 minutes per bolt for a 3/8'' hole.
>
>It used to take me upwards of 30 minutes for a 12mm hole in the volcanics
>of the Glasshouse Mtns.

My first bolt I spent a year hand drilling one hole on lead using an iron rod with a cross on the end on it
that I bought from the hardware. It was almost pure quartz quartzite and eventually I gave up with a
1/2 inch wide 1.5 inch deep dish. I still managed to bash a mild steel blob in (no grinding just
hammered the thread flat) and do the route with one rest before going to araps for a week....only to
have a snake by the name of HB pass through adelaide and do the f'er.

Later on I bought a ryobi, and found out that there are sections of Norton Summit quartzite that can
blunt a brand new drill bit in one hole.


howzithanging?

14-Aug-2009
8:39:46 PM

what kind of drill bit.. one made by "bob the builder"

dalai

14-Aug-2009
9:39:44 PM

My Ryobi is still in pristine condition WWS. Especially since I've only brought it out of the shed a couple of times in the past decade to bolt a few routes. As instead of tying in I now prefer to just boulder...

I still have a couple of boxes of trubolts and hangers, perhaps I should drive to Arapiles or Ben Nevis? Both sound like good places to sink some steel.

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