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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

 Page 2 of 3. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 56
Author
Moonarie - Worth bringing a Sat. phone?
racingtadpole
11-Mar-2009
10:02:46 PM
Just to clear up something here, I use the term EPIRB to describe anything like an EPIRB, PLB or SPOT. When they first came on the market they were EPIRBs and thats what I continue call them. Most rentals are normally a PLB because they are smaller and cheaper. Response times in the event of things going pearshaped are reduced considerably if the authorites can pinpoint your location. This can only be seen as a good thing in my opinion.

I guess the use of such devices is one of those subjects that elicits various emotions in people. Some think they are great, and worth both the expense and extra bulk in your pack. Some think they are an intrusion into the solitude. Both are valid points. No matter which side of the fence you sit on you should be prepared to deal with things as best you possibly can before you have outside assistance. For as long as I have access to a Sat Phone, I will continue to take it with me. When I dont I will probably buy a PLB. To each their own.

And for the record, I AM an anal retentive helmet wearer because I got hit in the head by a falling podger (36/32 ratcheting variety) on an industrial job in 2002. The outcome of that was it hurt a lot and i said lots of rude words before passing out in the bottom of the barrel cage (having managed to downclimb 45m), spending about 400years filing the paperwork for the ensuing medical expenses and now I religiously wear a helmet.

wallwombat
11-Mar-2009
10:10:50 PM
On 11/03/2009 racingtadpole wrote:
> To each their own.

I couldn't agree more.



SwineOfTheTimes
11-Mar-2009
10:16:00 PM
You going to drive a VOLVO to the crag too?
racingtadpole
11-Mar-2009
10:19:50 PM
Nope sold that after I couldnt get the last bike out of the grill...

SwineOfTheTimes
11-Mar-2009
10:26:24 PM
Satphone isn't going to make a shit of difference to if your going to live or die, just how long you're going to be in pain for.
Either way, you're going to be in pain for a long time.
racingtadpole
11-Mar-2009
10:39:46 PM
Satphone isn't going to make a shit of difference to if your going to live or die, just how long you're going to be in pain for

A very naive attitude, but, to each their own.


SwineOfTheTimes
11-Mar-2009
11:05:33 PM
On 11/03/2009 racingtadpole wrote:

>
>A very naive attitude, but, to each their own.
>
>

Heard of the golden hour??

Who has the naive attitude?

Robb
12-Mar-2009
9:08:55 AM
On 11/03/2009 WM wrote:
>On 11/03/2009 Wendy wrote:
>> There's some rap anchors gone in that are not in my guidebook - if there
>isn't
>>an updated one, I did find them on line somewhere, sadly, can't remember
>>where now.
>

www.climbingclubsouthaustralia.asn.au/nr_moonarie.html

moonarie guide update and new routes available on the above site.

tnd
12-Mar-2009
10:06:12 AM
On 11/03/2009 wallwombat wrote:
>...(stuff)

Mate I don't have a problem with you wanting to contrive some wilderness experience for yourself and pretending you're back in the days of Burke and Wills or whatever. But if you are away and reported missing then the emergency services do not have the option of saying "oh well, WW said he didn't want to be rescued". They are duty bound to spend huge amounts of taxpayers' money and possibly risk their lives looking for you.

Unfortunately for individualists like yourself we are all stuck in this society together and therefore have to exercise some responsibility. I'm honestly not trying to take a dig at your lifestyle but I want to make the point that everything you do affects someone else, even if you don't want it to.

tnd
12-Mar-2009
10:08:58 AM
On 11/03/2009 racingtadpole wrote:
>Just to clear up something here, I use the term EPIRB to describe anything
>like an EPIRB, PLB or SPOT....

The big advantage I see with SPOT is that it has the "I'm ok, things going fine" and "In a spot of bother, don't need the troops but can you come and drop a rope down to me" buttons as well as the "It's all turned to sh1t, Help!" button. PLBs only have the latter.

wallwombat
12-Mar-2009
3:48:09 PM
On 12/03/2009 tnd wrote:
> I'm honestly not trying to take a dig at your lifestyle but I want to make
>the point that everything you do affects someone else, even if you don't
>want it to.

Thanks mate. I never realised that until now. What a revelation!

On 11/03/2009 nmonteith wrote:
>There is a major tourist park just down the road. It's no more remote than
>Pierces Pass in the Bluies or
>the Vic Range sin the Grampians.

This was my initial point and then you went on the attack , inferring that anyone (ie me) who sets foot in the bush without a satellite dish stuck up their arse is a drain on society.

Every year climbers and walkers and paddlers go to places like Frenchman's Cap and Moonarie and the Sterling Ranges and The Western Arthurs and the Franklin River without these things. How often do these people need to be rescued? Not very often. It's normally tourists who stray off walking tracks or inexperienced walkers who cant read a map or use a compass that need to be rescued.

My point is , experienced people who know what they are doing rarely are the ones who need to be rescued, and this is because they are prepared for what might eventuate and generally deal with whatever may go wrong, themselves.

Unlike Burke and Wills.


WW
Richard Delaney
12-Mar-2009
3:55:20 PM
I'd be very interested to see some stats supporting the position that:

"It's normally tourists who stray off walking tracks or inexperienced walkers who cant
read a map or use a compass that need to be rescued. ... experienced people who
know what they are doing rarely are the ones who need to be rescued, and this is
because they are prepared for what might eventuate and generally deal with whatever
may go wrong, themselves"

I'm not so sure that miss-adventure is so selective in her choice...

evanbb
12-Mar-2009
4:09:16 PM
On 11/03/2009 SwineOfTheTimes wrote:
>Heard of the golden hour??
>
>Who has the naive attitude?

I think I've heard of the Golden Hour; it's $2 schooners of Coopers Red at the AB. It is also rarely followed by a golden morning.

Somewhat more seriously, are you suggesting that if you receive treatment in an hour your odds of survival are HEAPS better?

Probably true. But a Satphone EPIRB or St Bernard doesn't eliminate much risk from your activities; doesn't open that window up very much. My point is that if you do something stupid enough, it won't matter how many phones you have, you'll still die.

They're not a Get Out Of Jail free card by any means. It still takes a long time for them to reach you. Say you're in the Wolgan, not even that remote a place. Fall off Sizzler at the top of the track (soloing down it after ticking something awesome on the upper cliffs), and your mate bangs his head. There's no way known on God's earth ANY help will be there within the hour.

I guess to bring this to some semblance of sense I should summarise. Sure, take a Satphone everywhere you go. To work, to the shops, up the pub. It will improve your chances of surviving some calamaties, but certainly not all. Weigh up the possible number of saves, against the loss of freedom (as described by Wombat and Stu) and make your call.

I would argue that a better policy is to know some awesome First Aid, and don't do anything stupid.
Richard Delaney
12-Mar-2009
4:17:58 PM
Within an hour...

I had a kid suffer an asthma attack in Deep Pass in the middle of the Wollemi NP
(nothern Blue Mountains) some years back and, even with considerable first hand
experience in managing asthma, couldn't remove him from the environmental stimulus.

From the time I left on foot - 20min running to the car, then drive 15minutes to mobile
coverage just past Bungleboori picnic area (that's 35min gone), and stressed to the 000
operator that I didn't know the name of the nearest cross street but that this was a
medical emergency, the helicopter got there just over an hour (from when I left the kid).
Careflight doc said he would not have lived the night.

So, satphone call from Sizler (thanks for reminding me of that climb!) could easily result
in sub hour treatment.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
12-Mar-2009
4:30:33 PM
WW wrote;
>My point is , experienced people who know what they are doing rarely are the ones who need to be rescued, and this is because they are prepared for what might eventuate and generally deal with whatever may go wrong, themselves.

>Unlike Burke and Wills.

Didnít they take a gun with them to deal with the unknown?

Brings to mind this classic...

As we know,
There are known knowns,
There are things we know we know.
We also know
There are known unknowns.
That is to say
We know there are some things
We do not know.
But there are also unknown unknowns,
The ones we donít know we donít know.


~ Feb 2, 2002, Dept. of Defence news briefing - Rumsfeld

tnd
12-Mar-2009
5:41:09 PM
On 12/03/2009 wallwombat wrote:
>...experienced people who know what they are doing rarely are
>the ones who need to be rescued, and this is because they are prepared
>for what might eventuate and generally deal with whatever may go wrong,
>themselves.

So on the rare occasions when these experienced people do need to be rescued, it's ok that rescuers may have to expend huge effort and possibly risk searching a general area, when they could have been led straight to the scene by an electronic device?

wallwombat
12-Mar-2009
5:51:52 PM
No, because generally part of being experienced means you don't go somewhere without letting someone know where you are going and when you intend to be back.

That is a no brainer and I often leave a photocopied topographic map of exactly where I intend to go, if it is more off the beaten track than usual.



And I don't even need to buy batteries.
racingtadpole
12-Mar-2009
6:00:15 PM
When what is supposed to be a friendly discussion results in people sending me PM's telling me I am ignorant because my opinion differs from that which they hold its time to bow out of participating in the thread.

wallwombat
12-Mar-2009
6:18:27 PM
On 12/03/2009 racingtadpole wrote:
>When what is supposed to be a friendly discussion results in people sending
>me PM's telling me I am ignorant because my opinion differs from that which
>they hold its time to bow out of participating in the thread.

Who they hell did that?

That really pisses me off. This is supposed to be an open forum. Anyone who want to say something should have the balls to say it upfront.

Personally I see nothing wrong with your point of view. I get what you are saying. I get what TND is saying too. All I am saying is that it's not for me.

Your opinions are still valid.

Cut and paste the PM onto this thread so we can see who the gutless wanker is.

Just because your opinion differs to those of others DOES NOT mean it is not valid and it certainly doesn't make you ignorant.

Don't let the bastards get you down.

ado_m
12-Mar-2009
6:51:09 PM
While the majority (80%+) at the moment wouldn't take one, I think I'll cop up the $300 or so. Appreciate all the frank advice. I'm aghast that anyone would bother sending abusive PMs about views expressed in this post.

 Page 2 of 3. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 56
There are 56 messages in this topic.

 

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