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General Climbing Discussion

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12:29:17 PM
I will havachat with kim&Rick , about that , when I get to the summit.


Luv, HEX ( Bloody crampon straps !!! --- gotta get some strap-less Foot-Fangs ! )

Yes , that 'rumour' is roughly-right, Neil . And then '...of course...' , all the usual 'impovements' began to flow :There WAS a super-mind-testing-Gr22?-trad route which climbed up very steep-ground , with the crux being a short hanging-slab,protected by 2x' bomber ' RP's. ' A mind-excursion ' type of challenge/satisfaction ,until ' some dude(s)' decided to retro-bolt the slab / others chop the bolt(s) / dudes re-retro---ya get that at Frog...sometimes...

How long can/should ? Ben Lomond remain etc, etc ,etc

Calum McLellan : ' Frog Buttress is a love or hate crag , with about 400 routes . 80% of these routes require substantial amounts of crack technique. This has caused a lot of anger and frustration amongst a number of visiting sport climbers.'

Oweng 20/02/04 : ' There was a time when placing bolts on CERTAIN cliffs was very much a no-no. This persists to this day (and hopefully for a while yet ) on the Ben Lomond plateau.'

OMMMMMMMMMM-IN' from the summit , Luv,HEX.

12:41:06 PM
The rumour went that Rick White flew Kim Carrigan up to Frog to repeat the first route with a bolt at Frog - without clipping the bolt. Of course since then heaps of bolted routes got done at Frog.
9:13:03 PM
Your wish is my command. I have both standard and lightweight footfangs for sale to the first bidder who is prepared to pay freight. My standard fangs are certified life-savers.
They were worn on an ascent to the Aguille du Midi telepherique station in a storm.
I was sitting in the Bar Nationale when my hut mates of the morning walked in and said something like: "Bloody hell! We thought you were dead. It was a total white-out up there and John walked through the cornice."
Then we all got really pissed. The magic fangs are yours. Unfortunately I've sold the magic axe that I tapped the fangs with after every step.

2:12:20 PM
' ...the magic axe...' --- now there's a good que to pursue the epic of Gilgamesh !

If Ben is gunna seek glory in contrived '34' & ' The Ho' is gunna sink so low as to call an Araps 30+ , 'Mighty Mouse'--- then it is no-wonder that Gilgamesh '...will laugh at all attempts to free it...'

But I'm not gunna eat Baxter's under-pants if it DOES go free !

(Hangin me nickers next to the prayer flags) .Luv,HEX

3:43:46 PM
On 8/04/2004 hex-TROLL wrote:
> (Hangin me nickers next to the prayer flags) .Luv,HEX
What are you praying for ? (Full participation rights instead of bystander rights)?? ... Get back under the house A5! ...

>Those were the two who I was thinking of. That's pretty good style - one day and only one pad. (tim: re Oops Boulder at Araps)
So if subsequent ascents use two pads is this retro-padding?

4:12:51 PM
The prayer flags were left there by Piggy&Dinkum---they shall remain until the day Gilga goes free or Ben glues '34' holds back-on.

' Full participation ' ?---- HEX '...moves in mysterious ways !'

Well done making it thru the vexatious chicanes today , bro---the pent-house is yorz---leave '...under the house...' for the mouse !

Luv,HEX (warming up the gigla-hype...)

Wha' ? Piggy&Dinkum retro-padding?---I was wondering what made those toboggan-marks off the summit...

5:05:22 PM
On 8/04/2004 A5iswhereitsat wrote:

>>Those were the two who I was thinking of. That's pretty good style -
>one day and only one pad. (tim: re Oops Boulder at Araps)
>So if subsequent ascents use two pads is this retro-padding?

As long as they don't pump up the inflatable bouncy castle, I'm not going to
call anyone on pad use. It's a long way down from the top of that boulder.

On a related note, if you combined extreme aid and BASE jumping... Could you still have A5 with
a chute strapped on?


5:11:52 PM
I think that later ascentionists, if they believe the route is dangerous for others, can, in the interests of safety, quite validly add bolts to already established routes. The classic example is "no beans for bonzo" at Booromba in the ACT. Never climbed until Simon Carter added six bolts - now it is a classic three star moderately run oute classic, whereas before it was a death route. We can all still apprecaiet the skill and ability that went into the first ascent, an dmor epower to the first ascentionist - but climbing's about climbing, not dyingg

5:16:22 PM
On 8/04/2004 hex-TROLL wrote:
>The prayer flags shall remain until the day Gilga goes free or Ben glues '34' holds back-on.
>But I'm not gunna eat Baxter's under-pants if it DOES
I expect they'd be pretty bullet proof after this amount of time ..., but ... (BA 2/4/4)
‘ What is humanly possible now? … stringing together longer and longer sequences of "strength" moves. Does that mean they are stronger? … Some of them have left their chipped legacy behind as a 'reminder' to future generations to think before they act … climbers come and go’.

Will be hard chewing indeed. Those of us with dentures will have to ...
(H-T) 'suck when you want to chew'

5:22:23 PM
On 8/04/2004 tmarsh wrote:
> if you combined extreme aid and BASE jumping... Could you still have A5 with a chute strapped on?
Its already been done on the Dawn Wall / Wall of Early Morning Light @ Yosemite, back in 1980 / 81 if I recall correctly.
Be a drag if you did not coil the lead-rope though ... as shroud lines are a bit thin for UIAA Rating! Apparently the aim is to climb till you are cul-de-sacked, then jump ... just for the outrageousness of getting to the jump spot?

Why don't Dean Potter and Co. solo climb the Nose of El Cap etc with a chute on instead of a rope coiled on their back? (The chute would make more sense to me)!

Brings to mind the Difference between a Base Jumper and Rockclimber joke.
One goes Whack, SH*T & the other goes Sh*t, WHACK.

5:39:11 PM
Yes , and Mr Smart was actually very pleased(much later,on reflection) about Bonzos new bozo bolts . He conceeded(only recently) that his ' boldness ' HAD been a touch ' extreme'.

A5--- I believe one Randy Levitt(ation) started that fad ---until some-one smashed into the wall...


(all-together-now) TOO MUCH FOR MY BODY ! ; TOO MUCH FOR MY BRAIN !!---THIS DAMN [HEX] IS GUNNA DRIVE ME INSANE !!! (Bon Scott, R.I.P.,dude)

5:45:15 PM
You do indeed move in mysterious ways.
Thats the 1st time I have had a post replied to in the time that it took to go from 'OK-enter' to ... Forums.
Its almost like you were reading my 'to be sent' item as I was typing it.
This cauldron has some heavy duty broth in it!

'I believe one Randy Levitt(ation) started that fad'

Definitely rings a bell. You are consistant with your 'in-depth' knowledge.
At the risk of venting in your pocket, I think I had you pegged reasonably from the start, when others (who have since come around) were more skeptical.

>'A5---said the gazelle running in front of the lions jaws !!! Over&Out, Gentle-Dude'
Sent ya an email Hex. You will appreciate the attachment.
>A5---e-mail ? , THAT e-mail(address) IS a troll !!! (comprehendy?)--- ' e-mail ' every- thing HERE so I can read it ! The parliment is open to all.

Yeah, my mailer returned to sender, so I figured you sandbagged me.
The attachment was a video clip of a gazelle running before some lions resting under a tree. It took 'its eye off the ball' and knocked itself rotten by colliding with the tree. Presumably the lions feasted easily that day ... Thought you'd appreciate the humour / stupidity? Got nothing to do with climbing so I won't post it to parliament.

6:15:16 PM
' The HEX ' salutes those ' skeptical ' people --- it's what keeps this a ' free ' country.

7:50:36 PM
> A5--- I believe one Randy Levitt(ation) started that fad ---until some-one
>smashed into the wall...

actualy a lot of people have done this (normal base jumpers i don know much about base climbing, except that it would be bloody awesome to try)

take offs would be interesting if you decided to go before topping out-- jump out and pull all your gear midair before you start falling....

10:45:24 AM

good knowledge of ACT granite climbing history. I can't imagine too many people would be able to recall John Smart as first ascentionsist of NBFB. I might reconsider some of my earlier comments about you....maybe......

11:52:03 AM
i must say that despite your somewhat antisocial induction into chockstone hex, you certainly 'know your shit' when it comes to climbing...your input has become a somewhat integral part of many discussions- well done old chap
Josh the pesky mouse whos finally appreciating 'the hexish vibe from the summit' Caple
3:34:02 PM
I'm pretty sure your trolling Damien. Just in case your not here is a couple of points to ponder next time you are running it out on your intermediate 29.

Firstly the current ACT Granite Guide gives a pretty comprehensive history of John Smart's first accent of No Beans for Bonzo, and his initial reaction to the retrobolting. For all I know he has changed his views since. However I'm sure most of the people who have opened the guide would know who made the first accent.

Secondly justifying retrobolting solely because a route is unsafe is narrow minded. Other factors such as the style and history of the crag have to be considered. Also, with the obvious exception of places like Araps, sports crags tend to get much more traffic than more traditional climbing areas. This means there is a much bigger human impact in the form of tracks, litter, car parking etc which could threaten access. I'm not anti-bolting or anti sports climbing (far from it). I do however think climbers need to be more aware of their wider impacts.

Perhaps after consensus within the climbing community a retrobolt may be justified in some circumstances. Perhaps NBFB was a case in point ... I wouldn't know as I wasn't climbing in the ACT at the time. But just because a later day ascentionist finds something scary doesn't mean that a route needs a bolt added. Just because a climber may redpoint 28 it doesn't mean he or she should expect to be able to climb every 22 on the planet.

Sorry for the rant


4:08:59 PM
Some fair points there Estey. However, continuing the example of NBFB, the retrobolting opened up to more people (not many because it's still runout 6 bolts in 50m verticle) some of the best climbing in the region, on pretty much the best wall at Booroomba. The bolting was done tastefully and I'm sure the local climbers are happy enough because they don't have to die dillay-dallying around trying to put pro in a tree and in another climb. Simon's approach could be seen as the 'gold standard'. The only person who was pissed was the first ascentionist, whose long since parted from the scene - and didn't chop the bolts I might add.

It brings into question what the motives are/were of first ascentionists, is it a statement of testicle size or a gift to others. Surely establishing a death route is exceedingly esoteric, ego inflating and selfish.

By 'safening' existing routes, it is not showing disrespect to the first ascentionist, it is progress. People seem to assume that 'tradition' is better, things were better then than they are now - if we believed that we would be covering up our women like Muslims, not voting, racists, believing the world was flat etc etc like the past. Climbing is a different 'sport' nowadays than it was in 1981, as is shown by the number of all types of people, women particularly, being in the sport. I know that I would hate to establish a route that someone died trying to climb......

The point about Tsunami was probably poorly made (ie there was no point), but i guess by world standards it is intermediate, given that if you go to France even the Baker's grandma can pull off 8a.

5:21:40 PM
On 8/04/2004 Mighty Mouse wrote:
>that fad ---until some-one smashed into the wall...
>actualy a lot of people have done this (normal base jumpers (snip)
You have lost the point as tmarsh was linking A5 and base jumping.
Not many people climb at A5 level, and even fewer are also base jumpers.
Many base jumpers have jumped Yosemite, but its not the same thing.

9:22:43 PM
my comment was not intentded to relate to the matter at hand...just adding my completely useless/irrelevant 2c

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There are 335 messages in this topic.


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