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General Climbing Discussion

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3:08:53 PM
On 6/02/2004 hex-TROLL wrote:
>Wonderdog---Cuttin'-sick on the 7th dimension, dude !!! You are totally
>fluent in 'hex-speak'. Your ethical drift is the best of both centuries
>and a great contribution to Australian rock climbing. Luv , hex-TROLL.
>BA---aaawwwww pleeeeeeeese!!! Luv , hex-TROLL.
>Climbingjac---To you we give ' The vessel of womanhood ' within Austalian
>climbing. Don't let the Grade 25 trad-resistance-level stop you from pursuing
>ascents, such as The Great Shark Hunt(30),(with or without clipping the
>bolt at the off-width) Luv , hex-TROLL .

Hey Hex, do you think I could get snakey in the 8th dimension if I got a degree in Literature?? :-)

8:49:39 PM
Just like to say , ya'al , that ' The Hex' wasn't the one who first let rip with the ' pocket-pissing' flame-thrower. Obviously in a democracy , the froth from the caldron spills over ever now and then : ' [ hex ] didn't start the fire ; the world's been burning , since the Earth's been turning ' (Billy Joel ).

Wonderdog--- ' When you can walk on the rice-paper , without leaving any foot-prints , then the time will be right' ,dude.

' Re-bolting' the Re-volting names at Nowra---Cranking up the status of women's climbing a notch or two : If it's ok to re-bolt,bolts (and there seems a high degree of concensus on this issue ) , then what's wrong with re-naming 'over-the top' climb-names ? Repeat ascents of those 'ghastly' things @ Nowra by many of 'the ladies' indicates ,again, that democracy is alive and well in the land of Mark Latham's 'neo-larrikinism' (Don't laugh too much BA and A5---it's obvious you are both learned gentledudes!). ; Trolls , role-moles--- I'm not too keen on these additions to 'climbing-speak' : 'The hex' hereby coins 'role-Dolls' ; and suggests that Westy anddaboys(&girls?) be a little bit more considerate , since their 'sends' are publicised Australia-wide.
A5---your 'warm&fuzzy' contribution is excellent , and the bit about retro bolting 'hooked-faces' , was quite a brow-raiser. If it's a classic aid-route then maybe it should be respected as such. Hopefully a free version can found around the hook-section, in the way a similar thing has been 'achieved' on El Cap's Nose (by role-Doll,Lynn Hill ?) and on the Totem Pole.
With people practICING their 'drytooling' skills on the crags , there's even more 'reason' to have an 'open' forum.(Lots of issues that need a fresh 'spin' on them).

Luv , hex-(S)TROLL.

9:15:14 AM
Sense eternity in a spiders web, the universe is mirrored in the chaos and symmetry. The struggles of the fly and the futile drama of climbing may well make us all wish we were free to fly... fly and be free! If I am snakin' then I will leave no 'foot' prints. I am ready to ascend... y'all.

6:47:25 PM
There is now 77 members in the Re-Bolt Victoria Forum. Wow - i have a lot of friends...

9:53:00 PM
' The struggles of the fly...' : now who might you be referring to there ?!
Like they say in parliment : " It' obvious what the views of the 'opposition' are , but what are the 'real' views of all those ' friends' sitting on your own benches ? "...

Onsight (on 'that' thread today) : ' The retro debate is one that [the climbing community] should have'--- quite an insight ,bro, but the 'Bloodline masses' might not agree with you.

The Monkpuz 'solution' : let's hope the new sling is UV500 !!! (weather it's in the shade or not).

Rupert--- whose that dude , bouldering on the blue-stone, next to you ?...

Everyones views are welcome and valued--- 'Crags before egos'

Luv , hex-(S)TROLL.

10:18:22 PM
WM---nice to see you can warm your self by the caldron , without taking it toooooo seriously, dude---you're one of the few who are willing to consider new views , without worrying about what some of 'the names' are going to think about you.
Now , the journey from El Cap to Gilgamesh goes something like this :

The bit on El Cap's Nose was ' The last pitch before the summit...With nearly 3000 feet of exposure and some spectacular 5.12c face climbing over a couple of overhanging bulges...' (roll-Doll Lynn Hill , 1994).
There were some bizarre 'rationales' going around circa 1980, in the valley, as the 'super-dudes' fuelled their brains on the litt' of Carlos Casteneda in particular.It was decided that over time , the piton scars on The Nose,(and Astro'), would become big enuf to finger-lock , anyway , so why not speed up the process 'a bit'.
Inventor-of-Frenz , RayJar' was frigging in the rigging , for many days , bashing angle pitons backwards and forwards to create the 'chips' you refer to. He and a swag of others still couldn't free the traverse , until Lynn came along and took the honours (for the roof and the new face at the top).

Witch ,now, brings us to sunny Qld , Aus. : The 'Boona-bar-flies', usta tell the tale of the first 'free' ascent of a certain route that was achieved with 'jiggery-pokery' using a 'Sebco' hand drill :The crux of the route was a smooth,3 metre section ,which would be an 'easy' grade 32 today .But it was decided that the climbers of 2004 could go and %$&*@#.
2x5/16 holes were drilled , 1 cm apart, and the small piece of rock, between, was knocked out ,creating a tiny finger-nail jug , just big enuf to allow a shimmy sequence , high up to the next natural micro hold , and on to glory.
This stuffs been going on since the sixties : John Ewbank circa 1968 : "Chipping negates the challenges for future generations" ; "Too many bolts reduces the climbing experience to just looking for the next bolt-head " etc,etc,etc.

GILGAMESH---a case for 'creative-enhancement' ? : Gilgamesh is still an aid-route , but HB has come within a bees-dick of freeing it : that donga might be the difference between grade 34 and grade 37. It would definitely make a fantastic 'free-blast' but if it's Grade 37 ,then there's a few options to consider : 1) Leave it for todays 10 year olds to eventually free it; 2) Hope the Huber bros come for a visit and send it (without that 'poh' stuff) ; 3) Make one small chip;4) Glue on a small in-cut hold made of local stone ;5) Bolt on a small gym-hold( with easy allen key removal if it's too rad ); 6) Respect it as an aid route and try not to widen the peg placements.(until 1 or 2 occur ).
Compared to what some 'shade-masters' have done , these options are relatively mild,dude.
Cheers to you bro , Luv , hex-(S)TROLL.
10:33:49 PM
For your information non-person, aka hex-TROLL. Malcolm has free-climbed every move of Gilgamesh, it is the continuous ascent that is the problem. Chipping is not an issue on that climb. I don't know what your agenda is or who you are but I despise you. You think you are so clever, hiding behind your anonymity. You're pathetic.
Kieran Loughran (not afraid to identify myself).

9:26:19 AM
Indeed - Malcolm has climbed the route past the crux (in the roof down low) and fallen in the corner up high (grade 26ish move). He reckon it is no harder than grade 32/33.

Ray Jardine chipped face holds across the traverse on pitch 13 of the Nose and led it clean at 5.12a (25) in the 1980's. This pitch is used by all free climbers to avoid the blank rock and big bolt ladder at the end of pitch 15.
10:11:06 AM
>Witch ,now, brings us to sunny Qld , Aus. : The 'Boona-bar-flies', usta
>tell the tale of the first 'free' ascent of a certain route that was achieved
>with 'jiggery-pokery' using a 'Sebco' hand drill :The crux of the route
>was a smooth,3 metre section ,which would be an 'easy' grade 32 today .But
>it was decided that the climbers of 2004 could go and %$&*@#.
>2x5/16 holes were drilled , 1 cm apart, and the small piece of rock, between,
>was knocked out ,creating a tiny finger-nail jug , just big enuf to allow
>a shimmy sequence , high up to the next natural micro hold , and on to

I'm not sure that's quite the kosher-tale HEx-ie my friend - & I am suprised that someone as learn-ed as yourself would associate with such insects, dude. reliable sources say that our soon-to-be-new-gym-king-shade-master just got a bit under the collar & decided that the said piece of rock-work would be climbed. Surely the inadequate rock archiecture in question didn't need such intricate planning as suggested.... But of course, if only the said shade master had a cauldron, hex-spells & crystal ball, 'cause then the future of a much larger the 'tiny finger-nail jug' of today could have been seen....

the options may not be extreme compared to some parts of the not-so-cool climbing world, but that doesn't make them desirable. Leave it for the punks to come of the gym & see what they can do in 10 years time.

10:41:43 AM
Is it me ?

Fair enough if some people want to speak in their own language so be it, just do it somewhere else please.

You could try this forum"www.f^

Jevon Hardware.

11:45:40 AM
No, we all need to go here so that we can learn what the hex-TROLL is on about...

Push the button to listen to HEX_TROLL

11:57:54 AM
ewww disturbing..

9:15:02 PM
OK , ya'al , we've Neil-y got this sorted : ' The Hex' was referring to the SECOND jardine traverse (pitch 22; freed by Lynn @ ~ 5.13b) , which goes '...underneath the Great Roof. This is the famous pitch that no one had yet been able to free-climb. Many had tried to do so , starting with Ray Jardine , who initiated the effort to free climb The Nose 15 years before . After several unsuccessfull tries to free climb past the Great Roof , Ray eventually abandoned his attempt. Since then , many other climbers had set out to make the first free ascent of this legendary route , but no one had succeeded.' (ibid).
This is where Rayjar' did the stuff I've mentioned re. angle-pitons.
Neil wrote : ' RJ chipped face holds...and led it CLEAN...' ; maybe running across the face on a pendulum-rope might be a bit 'cleaner' ; but that's the great diversity of ethical views for ya! Neil---thanks for contributing to the ' workable middle ground' , dude.

James---you're doing a few radical-back-hand-floating-re-entries off the re-bound waves of the 7th dimension, bro ! Ya fairly carvin' a gnarly slash off the rim of the caldron ,dude!
Now , what's this about '...associate with such insects...' ? ---you're not snakin' with the Wonderdog are you ?!
But I digress : allow a clue to the climb alluded to : it may or may not have been groovy attire in the 70's...

GILGAMESH : hopefully Malcolm is 'planning to address' , cos if anyone 'owns' Gilga' , it is he.Better hurry up HB, ---' The Ho' & VD are probably out there right now !!!

Luv , hex-TROLL.
10:32:48 PM
Hex. What a waste of time and space you are. What have you contributed to climbing?
You are too scared to identify yourself.
You have given no reason for remaining anonymous.
Basically you are a pathetic wimp who has to hide behind a pseudonym.
Piss off!
12:09:51 AM
Cheers for the thought proving thoughts Hex. Mind if I share some of this campfire heat for a bit?

Re-bolting: IMO replacing bad bolts with good is a darn good thing and I take my hat off to whoever is prepared to do it. And while at it, I see no problem with a little re-positioning of the odd “clip” if it is poorly positioned — because, lets face it, it’s often hard to always choose the bests spots the first time (often it’s only when it’s climbed that we realise we didn’t get it "quite right"). After all, who like likes the crux of the climb to be clipping a bolt? We’re talking “sport climbing” — not “sport clipping”.

Retro-bolting: Clearly a different beast. I think we are all agreed that it is about “respect” — and therefore if the FA is done in perfect style (ground up) then that is something we should all “respect”. For example, no-one would dare seriously suggest retro-ing the Bachar-Yarien because that (FA) is so unquestionably bold, visionary, and fully deserving of resect.

But what then if the FA style was a bit less “perfect”? Does that mean the FAionist (anyone coined that yet?) still has the right to impose say *excessive* run-outs (a subjective term) or even *dangerous* run-outs (a bit more objective) when they have had the (sometimes huge) “advantage” of abseil pre-inspection or even extensive top-rope rehearsal prior to the FA? As B&T said re retro-ing; ”That is lowering a climb to your ability as apposed to repeating it in its original first accent state.” That’s right, but the only problem with that I see, is that in some (maybe just a few) cases, the only way you can repeat the route in the same FA style is by walking around to the top and top-roping the living daylights out of it first. I see the VCC even recommends top-roping first before bolting, and I think it’s fine and good if it’s used so that the clips are optimally positioned, but not so cool if it’s used to create a run-out route which is perhaps supposed to make the FAionist look bad-arse bold. It’s a little easier to be bold when you’ve got it dialled. It’s harder to be bold when it’s onsight. Anyone else think that’s perhaps just a little unfair?

Don’t get too upset folks. I’m not talking many routes here. I just think that if a routes not bolted in a reasonable fashion for the onsight climber — a competent and bold climber who’s prepared to take the odd risk — and if the FAionsist had used an advantage here, then why shouldn’t it be up for a little, er, “re-consideration?”.

Re-naming: Nice concept Hex. I’m all for it. If a route has been named in a way that’s so obviously meant to offend, then why not? It’s the guidebook editors prerogative to re-grade things they know to be sandbags, then while not a little re-naming while we’re at it? Offensive names like that are hardly deserving of respect now are they? Let’s face it – times change, and Ice-T and his rapper mates didn’t exactly have the finest influence on route naming in the early ‘90’s. If you don’t know what we’re talking about then get hold of a Nowra guide – I‘d prefer not to have to give you the examples… Kieran, I don’t think Hex is a misogynist, his views here are rather enlightened (not so sure he'd suggested H had chipped on Gmesh either - perhaps it was just an example?).

Simon Carter
12:12:10 AM
I believe a precident was set early this week with this type of post?(they get deleted)
You add nothing to this topic kieranl except ridicule and abuse.
If you have a problem with comments made by hex then dont read them.
You click on them of your own free will.

Edit. Re post above Simon's
12:12:29 AM
PS. Hex, who are ' The Ho' & VD? Go on, give us a clue...

9:56:46 AM
On 13/02/2004 onsight wrote:
>Re-naming: Nice concept Hex. I’m all for it. If a route has been named
>in a way that’s so obviously meant to offend, then why not? It’s the guidebook
>editors prerogative to re-grade things they know to be sandbags, then while
>not a little re-naming while we’re at it? >Simon Carter
You will note this was already done at least once in the nowra guide with Eat my Spinning Blades of Steel mother%@#& which was edited down. There most likely were others as well.
10:17:23 AM
These are my guesses....
'The Ho'.... Nathan 'Ho'ette
VD... Vincent Day

10:39:06 AM
So now we part into the pro-HEX/anti HEX camps :-).

I think the anti HEX folks wouldn't be so anti if HEX didn't use such wanky I'm superior to you language! I guess it's all part of the cyptic...who am I thing... Whatever floats your boat.

I see nothing wrong with having a different opinion. No point in being a sheep...

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There are 335 messages in this topic.


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