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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

 Page 10 of 15. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 100 | 101 to 120 | 121 to 140 | 141 to 160 | 161 to 180 | 181 to 200 | 201 to 220 | 221 to 240 | 241 to 260 | 261 to 280 | 281 to 285
Author
climbing = dating?

anthonyk
28/10/2008
6:43:58 PM
On 28/10/2008 Macciza wrote:
>Back to climbing, communication is the key, adopt a similar set of calls,
>so you know whats going on!
>Something simple like a "Dating, Got me? - On Date, OK I got ya' and "Take
>me here" and so on . . .

what if its windy? three tugs on the rope?
Wendy
29/10/2008
9:01:03 AM
The reason feminism is feminism is because most societies were (and still are largely) masculinist. Which is not to say that they are masculinist in a positive way for men - there are plenty of problems around images of masculinity that lead to men feeling a need to prove themselves, have trouble talking about emotions, etcetc which lead to things like higher rates of suicide and alcoholism in men, merely that men are in a different position to women in our society and a movement that focused on women has done a lot to balance things out (not everything as women still earn 83% of men's wages, are 90+% of the victims of sexual assault etcetc) whilst also bringing up other social issues in general. Humanism, liberalism, socialism - these were all theories developed largely by white, heterosexual, educated, middleclass men 200 years ago. They certainly didn't encompass the whole range of viewpoints in society and the contiribution of women and people of different races and classes has broadened these theories immensely. Being specific about your interest and expertise doesn't make you separatist. It means you are admitting that you view the world from a specific subjective position and you are not trying to talk for everyone.

I do call myself a feminist and actually, I'm pretty fond of men ... Whether they call themselves feminist or not, most women in Australia are in practice. If you have an education, are working, living independantly, believe in your right to the integrity of your body, well, you're a feminist. Because prior to the expression and action on these ideas, we'd have been the legal possessions of husbands and fathers and destined to a life of domestic servitude. Feminism is not a dirty word. Or should I be typing f*minism? The world still needs a women specific interest group to continue to address ongoing women's issues. That doesn't mean they run counter to other interest groups. I don't like other people claiming to speak for me so I try and avoid claiming to speak for other people, especially people of diffierent situations and life experience to me. And feminism is an exceptionally broad field - a wee bit of research will find you liberal, radical, socialist, psychoanalytic and post-structuralist feminisms amongst others. I don't agree with all things said by all of them, but, that's normal enough.

Now, I'm going to go exercise my feminist principles and go climbing.

MrsM10iswhereitsat.
29/10/2008
9:22:30 AM
Well, I like the difference.

bluey
29/10/2008
9:43:56 AM
I told myself I wouldn't, but I'm gonna weigh in on the feminism discussion.

I actually think it boils down to an issue of semantics. The word 'feminist' has negative connotations these days and people seem to read "anti-men" and "militant" into it. And I can understand where some of those meanings have come from.

I think the feminist movement (and it's earlier incarnations such as the suffragettes) did amazing things for women who were in a severely disadvantaged position. However, I would consider myself, in today's world, more pro-humanity (and pro-environment, for that matter) than feminist. If there is a portion of humanity that suffers unfair disadvantage, this should be addressed. I would argue that women still experience disadvantages particular to their gender that need to be addressed - if that makes me a feminist and a humanist, well, so be it.

Sabu
29/10/2008
10:04:49 AM
On 29/10/2008 bluey wrote:
>The word 'feminist' has negative connotations these days and people seem to read
>"anti-men" and "militant" into it. And I can understand where some of those meanings
>have come from.
Like the "wom*n's lounge" at monash uni, its a death trap!

anthonyk
29/10/2008
2:23:58 PM
i think you're shadow boxing wendy

like a lot of feminist myth the "matriarchy" is a fantasy, there isn't a single example of it in the history of humanity. and if you think men aren't open with their feelings think of how many famous love songs there are written by men and how many by women, and its not because women are oppressed in the entertainment business or anything, maybe more because they're focused on themselves not other people.
k
29/10/2008
3:05:16 PM
On 29/10/2008 anthonyk wrote:

>like a lot of feminist myth the "matriarchy" is a fantasy, there isn't
>a single example of it in the history of humanity.

sheesh, you need a history lesson, boy.

billk
29/10/2008
3:06:10 PM
On 29/10/2008 Wendy wrote:
> Humanism, liberalism,
>socialism - these were all theories developed largely by white, heterosexual,
>educated, middleclass men 200 years ago.

Nah!

Those 3 isms and anarchism have always had plenty of women contributing to their development. Mind you not all of them had their contributions publicly acknowledged.

For instance: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harriet_Taylor

Perhaps white, educated, wealthy males have always been the best at blowing their own trumpets, while women, blacks, people not educated at Oxbridge etc have usually had their contributions go unrecognized.

anthonyk
29/10/2008
3:08:26 PM
On 29/10/2008 k wrote:
>On 29/10/2008 anthonyk wrote:
>
>>like a lot of feminist myth the "matriarchy" is a fantasy, there isn't
>>a single example of it in the history of humanity.
>
>sheesh, you need a history lesson, boy.

do I?

"The view of matriarchy as constituting a stage of cultural development is now generally discredited. Furthermore, the consensus among modern anthropologists and sociologists is that a strictly matriarchal society never existed." ('Matriarchy', Encyclopędia Britannica, 2007.)

from wikipedia-

Most modern anthropologists and sociologists assert that there are no known examples of human matriarchies from any point in history,[2][3][4][5][6][7] and Encyclopedia Britannica describes their views as "consensus", listing matriarchy as a hypothetical social system

# Steven Goldberg, The Inevitability of Patriarchy, (William Morrow & Company, 1973).
# ^ Joan Bamberger,'The Myth of Matriarchy: Why Men Rule in Primitive Society', in M Rosaldo and L Lamphere, Women, Culture, and Society, (Stanford, California: Stanford University Press, 1974), pp. 263-280.
# ^ Robert Brown, Human Universals, (Philadelphia: Temple University Press), 1991.
# ^ Steven Goldberg, Why Men Rule, (Chicago, Illinois: Open Court Publishing Company, 1993).
# ^ Cynthia Eller, The Myth of Matriarchal Prehistory: Why an Invented Past Won't Give Women a Future, (Boston: Beacon Press, 2001).
# ^ Jonathan Marks, 'Essay 8: Primate Behavior', in The Un-Textbook of Biological Anthropology, (Unpublished, 2007), p. 11.




maybe YOU need a history lesson

foreverabumbly
29/10/2008
3:16:48 PM
I wanna point out the latest growing trend in eco feminism, where all the earths environmental problems can all be directly attributed to male oppression and subordination of women in society. That degradation of nature is caused by similar, masculine attitudes and methods, and the solution is to adopt an entirley mother earth world view.


But honesetly, if women ruled the world we would just end up with a lot of jealous countries refusing to speak to each other.

westie
29/10/2008
3:20:26 PM
On 28/10/2008 bluey wrote:
>On 28/10/2008 Cookie wrote:
>>
>>Angelina's a slag!! Miranda's a ponce, Jen Hawkins is stuck up... i
>would
>>say Catherine Zita Jones would be my choice if i could look like someone
>
>I'd like to be rachel weisz. she's grrrrrrr.

there's about 5 grrrls at Hardrock (city) on Tuesday nights that rock. Can't ignore them try as I might. Still - makes me train harder (guffaw)
gfdonc
29/10/2008
3:37:27 PM
On 29/10/2008 foreverabumbly wrote:
>I wanna point out the latest growing trend in eco feminism, where all the
>earths environmental problems can all be directly attributed to male oppression
>and subordination of women in society. That degradation of nature is caused
>by similar, masculine attitudes and methods, and the solution is to adopt
>an entirley mother earth world view.

Ah c'mon. It's not well known, but the evidence is irrefuttable. It's due to the lack of pirates.
http://www.seanbonner.com/blog/archives/001857.php

Cookie
29/10/2008
3:55:33 PM

>
>there's about 5 grrrls at Hardrock (city) on Tuesday nights that rock.
>Can't ignore them try as I might. Still - makes me train harder (guffaw)

i'll remember to cover up especially well when i climb on tuesdays...

westie
29/10/2008
4:28:23 PM
On 29/10/2008 Cookie wrote:
>
>>
>>there's about 5 grrrls at Hardrock (city) on Tuesday nights that rock.
>>Can't ignore them try as I might. Still - makes me train harder (guffaw)
>
>i'll remember to cover up especially well when i climb on tuesdays...

*shrug* I'm no raincoat wearer. We all wouldn't be here if we didn't notice the opposite sex.

billk
29/10/2008
4:34:21 PM
On 29/10/2008 Cookie wrote:
>
>>
>>there's about 5 grrrls at Hardrock (city) on Tuesday nights that rock.
>>Can't ignore them try as I might. Still - makes me train harder (guffaw)
>
>i'll remember to cover up especially well when i climb on tuesdays...

Umm, most people would say Westie wrote something pretty nice there. Isn't it good when guys prefer women who get out there and do stuff?

Cookie
29/10/2008
5:16:13 PM

>>i'll remember to cover up especially well when i climb on tuesdays...
>
>Umm, most people would say Westie wrote something pretty nice there. Isn't
>it good when guys prefer women who get out there and do stuff?

sorry, i thought it was like a simey comment......

*shrugs* i wear raincoats :) i'm quite self conscious and have a lot of stupid tattoos i got on me when i was in a *cough-wild-cough* period of my life, which i hate, and unfortunately they draw a lot of attention, especially from the sort of people who lick their finger and wipe it on you and say "is it real???" and expect you not to want to headbutt them.... *grunt*
Wendy
29/10/2008
5:16:38 PM
Who are all these women people keep refering to anyway???

Did I say anything about matriarchies? I'm not claiming they exist/ed or that they are better or anything about them. I'm just saying that I see a lot of inequalities in our society still, and as a woman, the ones I am most qualified to talk about are around women. It does (as you have probably noticed) shit me to tears when people associate feminism with men hating and seeking power reversals. I haven't seen a definition of feminism recently that said it was a movement of men-hating dykes seeking to take over the world. There was one of them once, can't remember her name, wrote the SCUM (society for cutting up men) manifesto, very entertaining document, but she was a total loony who'd had a shocking life and surely no one took her seriously? In reality, I probalby just am arguing semantics - most people, men and women, in our society are largely in argeement with the principles of feminism. I just don't get why it has to be such a dirty word and why people should be afraid to say they are feminist and why people make such negative judgements about people who do say they are feminist.

And I did say LARGELY by middleclass etc etc men. Yes there was the odd exception - Mary Wollstonecraft was another. And yes, contributions by other people probably were written out of history, but I still believe it is safe to say they were a minority. When you study political theory through out history, you get Rousseau, Harriet's hubby John, Marx etc etc.

Why is the women's room a death trap? I loved the women's room at Adelaide Uni. It was a safe and quiet place to go when you needed a break. I'm pretty sure they had a men's room too.

Ecofeminism does suffer from some fluffy hippy gooey women nonsense.

And I won't be covering up next time I go climbing. Wear what you feel comfortable in. I happily eye off anything worth noticing as well! Most people are able to manage a natural tendency to look without being intrusive, although sadly, there are still some dick heads, a dirty look back usually goes a long way.
hero
29/10/2008
5:50:22 PM
OK, I don't like to do this, but

"most people, men and women, in our society are largely in argeement with the principles of feminism"

bullsh1t. Maybe in the circles you move.

humanism may have been defined by a white middleclass (more likely aristocrat) male but it is not a theory, it is core question about about species. Can we rise above the dumb monkey nature we clearly have?

what some adherents of ecofeminism spout does not detract from its core tenets any more than what some feminists write detracts from that isms' central ideas.



Sabu
29/10/2008
5:55:38 PM
On 29/10/2008 Wendy wrote:
>Why is the women's room a death trap? I loved the women's room at Adelaide
>Uni. It was a safe and quiet place to go when you needed a break. I'm pretty
>sure they had a men's room too.
No only a queer room and an activist space! I just dislike the attitude that the actual
word "men" is so grotesque (in their opinion) that has to be censored! I should stop now
because i'm heading into territory that is likely to leave me hung drawn and quartered!
Wendy
29/10/2008
6:17:53 PM
On 29/10/2008 hero wrote:
>OK, I don't like to do this, but
>
>"most people, men and women, in our society are largely in argeement with
>the principles of feminism"
>
>bullsh1t. Maybe in the circles you move.

Ok, probably. A mixture of being optomistic and trying not to tread too heavily on the toes of all those people telling me they like the idea of equality but didn't like feminism ...
>
>humanism may have been defined by a white middleclass (more likely aristocrat)
>male but it is not a theory, it is core question about about species. Can
>we rise above the dumb monkey nature we clearly have?

Don't know that we're doing that well sadly. But there's a whole bunch of other factors influencing that.

>
>what some adherents of ecofeminism spout does not detract from its core
>tenets any more than what some feminists write detracts from that isms'
>central ideas.
>

I did say "some" .... I can find "somes" that I find questionable in almost any theory. I do believe that feminism and environmental concerns blend well together, and there is some substance in the arguments about our current environmental damage that has taken place in a patriarchal society driven by masculinist theories etcetc, and the correlation between a whole range of different types of oppression is certainly valid. things get a bit wobbly with those who claim women have a special connection to nature and so on. We've had a few women show us they can be pretty ruthless, capitalistic etc as well. Would a female dominated society have been different? Probably. Would it have damaged the environment still? Probably. Would I actually want a female dominated society? Well, no not really.

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There are 285 messages in this topic.

 

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