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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

 Page 13 of 15. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 100 | 101 to 120 | 121 to 140 | 141 to 160 | 161 to 180 | 181 to 200 | 201 to 220 | 221 to 240 | 241 to 260 | 261 to 280 | 281 to 285
Author
climbing = dating?

MrsM10iswhereitsat.
5/11/2008
3:10:35 PM
On 30/10/2008 Ms Wendy wrote:
>I'm not saying that these white middle class males opinions aren't valid,
>merely dominant and it's nice to take them for what they are, theories
>rather than facts, occasionally and examine how their life situation influenced
>their view on the world and how they compare to other theories, analyses
>and adaptions people in other situation have produced.
>
and later wrote about missionaries and misinformation.

Hello dearie.
I have been thinking about many of the things you have said on this thread and believe I have found an interesting bit of history that I would like your opinion on, given the context of influences and how they may change over time.
What do you make of the following?



A Port Jackson Beauty.

“Gooreedeeana . . . excelled in beauty all their females I ever saw: her age about eighteen; the firmness, the symmetry and the luxuriancy of her bosom, might have tempted painting to copy its charms: her mouth was small; and her teeth though exposed to all the destructive purposes to which they apply them, were white, sound and unbroken. Her countenance though marked by some of the characteristics of her native land, was distinguished by a softness and sensibility unequalled in the rest of her countrywomen: and I was willing to believe that these traits indicated the disposition of her mind. I have never before seen this elegant and timid female of whom I had often heard: but the interest I took in her led me to question her about her husband and family. She answered by repeating a name, which I have now forgotten: and told me she had no children. I was seized with a strong propensity to learn whether the attractions of Gooreedeeana were sufficiently powerful to secure her from the brutal violence with which women are treated; and as I found my question either ill understood or reluctantly answered, I proceeded to examine her head, the part on which the husband’s vengeance generally alights. With grief I found it covered with contusions and mangled scars. The poor creature, grown by this time more confident, from perceiving that I pitied her, pointed out a wound just above her left knee, which she told me was received from a spear, thrown at her by a man who had lately dragged her by force from her home, to gratify his lust. I afterwards observed that this wound caused a slight lameness and that she limped in walking. I could only compassionate her wrongs and sympathise in her misfortune: to alleviate her present sense of them, when she took her leave, I gave her, however, all the bread and salt pork which my little stock afforded.”

From “Narrative of the Expedition to Botany Bay”
- WATKIN TENCH, Captain of Marines.

superbumbly
5/11/2008
9:21:52 PM
I feel more smarterer for having readed this thread.












climbing=dating?
yes
no
i don't know
maybe
if you want it to


and if i agree with some of the feminist rants on this thread, does that make me a sexist pig because i reckon there are some ridiculous ideas being spouted or a feminist because i agree, or a sexist pig feminist.



flame on!!!! ;-P

anthonyk
5/11/2008
9:30:21 PM
On 5/11/2008 superbumbly wrote:
>and if i agree with some of the feminist rants on this thread, does that
>make me a sexist pig because i reckon there are some ridiculous ideas
>being spouted or a feminist because i agree, or a sexist pig feminist.

the kiwis probably think you're a sexy feminine pig

BoulderBaby
5/11/2008
10:38:34 PM
Eh.

Why not date your climbing partner?

I mean, Climbing = Great perve.
Paul
6/11/2008
8:14:05 AM
On 5/11/2008 Musique wrote:
>Eh.
>
>Why not date your climbing partner?
>
>I mean, Climbing = Great perve.

Works for me.
hero
6/11/2008
9:55:53 AM
Not me, I mostly climb with Eduardo.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
6/11/2008
11:28:33 AM
On 6/11/2008 hero wrote:
>Not me, I mostly climb with Eduardo.

He does not seem (camera) shy, and going by the picture in the latest guide he is promiscuous* as well?




(*climbing with another partner).




Heh, heh, heh.
Wendy
6/11/2008
11:30:26 AM
On 5/11/2008 MrsM10iswhereitsat. wrote:
>Hello dearie.
>I have been thinking about many of the things you have said on this thread
>and believe I have found an interesting bit of history that I would like
>your opinion on, given the context of influences and how they may change
>over time.
>What do you make of the following?
>
>
>
>A Port Jackson Beauty.
>
>“Gooreedeeana . . . excelled in beauty all their females I ever saw: her
>age about eighteen; the firmness, the symmetry and the luxuriancy of her
>bosom, might have tempted painting to copy its charms: her mouth was small;
>and her teeth though exposed to all the destructive purposes to which they
>apply them, were white, sound and unbroken. Her countenance though marked
>by some of the characteristics of her native land, was distinguished by
>a softness and sensibility unequalled in the rest of her countrywomen:
>and I was willing to believe that these traits indicated the disposition
>of her mind. I have never before seen this elegant and timid female of
>whom I had often heard: but the interest I took in her led me to question
>her about her husband and family. She answered by repeating a name, which
>I have now forgotten: and told me she had no children. I was seized with
>a strong propensity to learn whether the attractions of Gooreedeeana were
>sufficiently powerful to secure her from the brutal violence with which
>women are treated; and as I found my question either ill understood or
>reluctantly answered, I proceeded to examine her head, the part on which
>the husband’s vengeance generally alights. With grief I found it covered
>with contusions and mangled scars. The poor creature, grown by this time
>more confident, from perceiving that I pitied her, pointed out a wound
>just above her left knee, which she told me was received from a spear,
>thrown at her by a man who had lately dragged her by force from her home,
>to gratify his lust. I afterwards observed that this wound caused a slight
>lameness and that she limped in walking. I could only compassionate her
>wrongs and sympathise in her misfortune: to alleviate her present sense
>of them, when she took her leave, I gave her, however, all the bread and
>salt pork which my little stock afforded.”
>
>From “Narrative of the Expedition to Botany Bay”
>- WATKIN TENCH, Captain of Marines.
>

Ah, Watkin .... his writing is inevitably affected by a few things, amongst them that he was asked to write of the development of the colony by the Commonwealth, so it is all written with a specific audience/purpose, and I don't think anyone of that era was talking about cultural awareness and subjectivity, so that everything is freely judged by his standards and understanding of the world as a western male. And what is even available for him to observe is affected by his position as white, male and an officer of the invading forces. In the light of all of which, I could rant a bit more about the above paragraph but I don't want to put anyone to sleep.

Anthonyk, be careful, you may get someone ranting about kiwiism ....

Back on the all important topic of climbing and dating, whilst climbing is a fantastic way of meeting people, and a range of potential partners, your chances of meeting someone from interstate or overseas are rather high, leading to a whole range of new problems ...
simey
Online Now
6/11/2008
11:46:53 AM
On 6/11/2008 Wendy wrote:
>Back on the all important topic of climbing and dating, whilst climbing is a fantastic way of meeting people, and a range of potential partners, your chances of meeting someone from interstate or overseas are rather high, leading to a whole range of new problems ...

Or a whole new range of opportunities.

anthonyk
6/11/2008
12:06:40 PM
On 6/11/2008 Wendy wrote:
>Ah, Watkin .... his writing is inevitably affected by a few things, amongst
>them that he was asked to write of the development of the colony by the
>Commonwealth, so it is all written with a specific audience/purpose,

so?

> and
>I don't think anyone of that era was talking about cultural awareness and
>subjectivity, so that everything is freely judged by his standards and
>understanding of the world as a western male.

whoa.... are you saying that a culturally sensitive view would put it into context of aboriginal society and justify the girl being beaten, speared and raped by her kind because its traditional in some way? are you serious?

> And what is even available
>for him to observe is affected by his position as white, male and an officer
>of the invading forces. In the light of all of which, I could rant a bit
>more about the above paragraph but I don't want to put anyone to sleep.

he's seen what he's seen and describing it, but you seem to imply that anyone thats white and male couldn't possibly have a valid unbiased view about any real issues that they've come across.

i thought it was a sensitive and honest story, but i suppose if you're wearing fem-goggles everything a man does and says is just a masked affront to femininity.

instead of attacking the guy you might have noticed that he is standing up for the girl, at least sentimentally by voicing her concerns and giving her food. in this case he's the one representing her interests, he's playing the role of the feminist, but you still feel inclined to attack him because he's male..
Wendy
6/11/2008
12:32:33 PM
Oh dear, I see I should have gone into the extended analysis.

Has the girl actually been speared, beaten and raped? If she has, were these things done by her Aboriginal partner? What is she likely to tell him about her personal experience given her experience of the invading forces and her ideas of talking with strange men? What barriers of language would have existed?

I'm saying he is has seen what he has seen through a set of cultural goggles and describing what he has seen in the light of an official document of the crown. I'm not attacking him, I'm saying there is a limit to what one can conclude from his account for all sorts of reasons.

Violence in Aboriginal communities could well have existed. It was definately increased by introduction of alcohol by white people. But white men definately beat, raped and abducted black women as well. Aboriginal people definately have ceremonial uses of scarring and tribal law uses of spearing. What Watkin is observing could have happened in any number of contexts rather than his assumption the those nasty black men were beating, raping and oppressing their women. He is obviously influenced in his impression by current views of the times about Aboriginal people - eg the destrucive purposes to which they put their teeth, the softness and sensibility that other Aboriginal women lacked. And he himself descibes his question as ill understood and reluctantly answered thus pointing out the chances of miscommunication being high.

I wish you'd get off your high horse about being anti male. I'd have said a white woman had little chance of seeing, understanding and recording what was happening for black women at that time too. History is written from a certain view point. Being male was a relevant part of that viewpoint. You may well also notice that he's interested in her because he finds her attractive. He's not sympathising with and thinking about taking away all the other black women around him. But I didn't see that as the most important issue in my concerns about the story, because I am not immediately indicting him as a lustful male, but merely suffering frm the inevitable subjectivity that we all have and living in an era when no one thought to question that subjectivity.


anthonyk
6/11/2008
12:49:27 PM
On 6/11/2008 Wendy wrote:
>I wish you'd get off your high horse about being anti male. I'd have said
>a white woman had little chance of seeing, understanding and recording
>what was happening for black women at that time too.

ok, well it was because the way you responded seemed to just state that because he's a white male officer then he can't be taken seriously.


anyway.. so how's it been working out noclimberboys?
Wendy
6/11/2008
12:50:15 PM
Actually, if I was being stereotypically antimale, I should have ranted on about the terrible abuses that men were inflicting upon that poor woman and that other man that only wanted to "save" her because he found her attractive and the law at the time said he could take an Aboriginal woman into his possession.

But in reality, it as all a bit more complicated then that. You might even note that I am defending other males (the Aboriginal ones) from the instant assumption that they are mistreating women.

To try and put all of my rant about subjectivity into context, think about when you write letters home. Do you write the same things, in the same way, to your mother, partner, best friend, climbing mates? We adjust things according to our audience, just as Watkin would have. And when you look at something, do you see the same things that all these different people in your circle see? Do you reach the same conclusions about them? We all notice and make sense of things in the light of our experiences, education, culture, interests, morals etcetc. Do you tell the same confidences to all people? What we are allowed to see and hear by other people is also affected by who we are and our relationship to them. Hence my concern about drawing conclusions from Watkin's writing.

anthonyk
6/11/2008
1:21:53 PM
On 6/11/2008 Wendy wrote:
>... and the law at the time said he could take an Aboriginal woman
>into his possession.

i don't want to dig up another worm farm but are you sure that was the case? thats a stronger statement than what i've come across about colonial laws about aborigines
Wendy
6/11/2008
2:23:30 PM
my understanding of the situation was that freesettlers and soldiers were allowed and encouraged to take black and convict women as servants (who were often used for more than just domestic services) and wives and the permission of said woman was not necessary.

anthonyk
6/11/2008
3:03:51 PM
On 6/11/2008 Wendy wrote:
>To try and put all of my rant about subjectivity into context, think about
>when you write letters home. Do you write the same things, in the same
>way, to your mother, partner, best friend, climbing mates? We adjust things
>according to our audience, just as Watkin would have. And when you look
>at something, do you see the same things that all these different people
>in your circle see? Do you reach the same conclusions about them? We all
>notice and make sense of things in the light of our experiences, education,
>culture, interests, morals etcetc. Do you tell the same confidences to
>all people? What we are allowed to see and hear by other people is also
>affected by who we are and our relationship to them. Hence my concern about
>drawing conclusions from Watkin's writing.

in other words everything is questionable, therefore that paragraph is questionable, therefore I don't care about anything in it. its a very convenient argument, but doesn't really add much.


by the way i think the person who posted it was just trying to stir up trouble anyway

MrsM10iswhereitsat.
6/11/2008
4:18:37 PM
On 6/11/2008 Mr anthonyk wrote about:
>>[Ms Wendy writing:
>>Hence my concern about drawing conclusions from Watkin's writing].
>
>in other words everything is questionable, therefore that paragraph is
>questionable, therefore I don't care about anything in it. its a very
>convenient argument, but doesn't really add much.
>
>by the way i think the person who posted it was just trying to stir up
>trouble anyway
>
Dearie me Mr anthonyk. Anyone would think that you are tiring yourself out with your provocative postings to Ms Wendy, without widening the net to possibly include the kiwis and now others?

Thank you Ms Wendy for your in depth response/s which I find quite enlightening. You have given me much food for thought, and now I may be in a better position to respond to some of the silliness that Derek my M10 love purports to be a dervish of knowledge about.
Isn't it wonderful that there are so many different ways of seeing things. I find it all rather fascinating, and there are certainly some interesting thought processes expressed on this lovely site sometimes.

hangdog
6/11/2008
4:43:37 PM
climbing = dating
wendy = feminazi
Wendy
6/11/2008
4:57:52 PM
On 6/11/2008 hangdog wrote:
>climbing = dating
> wendy = feminazi

holyhell, do you have a serious problem with your kahoonas?

hangdog
6/11/2008
5:34:46 PM
On 6/11/2008 Wendy wrote:
>On 6/11/2008 hangdog wrote:
>>climbing = dating
>> wendy = feminazi
>
>holyhell, do you have a serious problem with your kahoonas?

is that your best pick up line???

 Page 13 of 15. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 100 | 101 to 120 | 121 to 140 | 141 to 160 | 161 to 180 | 181 to 200 | 201 to 220 | 221 to 240 | 241 to 260 | 261 to 280 | 281 to 285
There are 285 messages in this topic.

 

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