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Arapiles Bore Dry - see here for updates.

ErikaH

26-Sep-2008
12:29:07 PM

I have always found it amazing there was ever flushing toilets at Arapiles. Even when they finally realised the water was in limited supply, the flushing continued!

What a waste. What crazy NP management.

Wendy

26-Sep-2008
3:00:50 PM

I agree, there did seem an absence of foreward planning. Surely the installation of an appropriate number of composting toilets and more rain water tanks some years ago would have averted the crisis?


Sabu

26-Sep-2008
3:43:58 PM

On 26/09/2008 Wendy wrote:
>absence of foreward planning.
As opposed to backward planning? :P


muki

26-Sep-2008
3:54:46 PM

I agree with Wendy, more tanks more composting toilets, enough to allow them to be cycled as business
picks up over Easter an Xmas, and more of those little tables like the ones down in the picnic area so
that campers aren't cooking in the dirt, and could place your water container on it to fill water bottles or
cooking pots would be nice.
But all of these things should have happened long ago, after the FIRST feasibility study, how much do
those things cost? oh that's right THOU$and$

ErikaH

26-Sep-2008
3:55:58 PM

how do you put a price on an aquifer being depleted? More than thousands!

Wendy

26-Sep-2008
8:22:46 PM

They found $50000 to do a feasability study ... reckon that would have made a fair dent toward resolving the problems and I'm sure between asking the rangers, some locals and some service users (ie climbers) they could have found that out and written it up for the cost of a weeks salary for some Park Vic person to do it.

rolsen1

26-Sep-2008
8:34:53 PM

On 26/09/2008 choss unlover wrote:
>I have always found it amazing there was ever flushing toilets at Arapiles.
>Even when they finally realised the water was in limited supply, the flushing
>continued!
>
>What a waste. What crazy NP management.

Having always used the flush ones, I found the stink this week terrible!

Call me soft but I can't imagine the smell in summer being anything but absolutely woeful unless something is done.

kieranl

26-Sep-2008
9:20:24 PM

According to the Wimmera Mail-Times drilling a new bore was to start today. I guess the idea is to get down below the level that the farmers downhill are using. Then, when their bores dry up because the campground is taking the water out from under them, they will drill still deeper and the park can go deeper again...
Hopefully this cycle can be maintained until the campground can be connected to the pipeline. The reservoirs for the pipeline are now sitting at a dizzy 6% full at the end of winter so there is nothing to worry about really.

surfinclimb

27-Sep-2008
2:00:55 PM

On 26/09/2008 kieranl wrote:
>According to the Wimmera Mail-Times drilling a new bore was to start today.
>I guess the idea is to get down below the level that the farmers downhill
>are using. Then, when their bores dry up because the campground is taking
>the water out from under them, they will drill still deeper and the park
>can go deeper again...
>Hopefully this cycle can be maintained until the campground can be connected
>to the pipeline. The reservoirs for the pipeline are now sitting at a dizzy
>6% full at the end of winter so there is nothing to worry about really.

Or you can wait till they get this Desal plant operating in my backyard on one of the most pristine pieces of coastline and then hopefully they can pipe it up to you guys coz as soon as the dams fill up for Melbourne their gunna need to do something with all this excess water the desal plant will continue to produce because under the agreements they have it wont get turned off regardless of how full or overflowing the dams are. Or we could just start washing the driveways again.


muki

27-Sep-2008
5:01:34 PM

Hey surfinclimb, that may be because the nuclear reactor that fires the thing needs a constant supply of
water to cool it down, or she goes Chernobyl on you, (read meltdown of the reactor core) you can't just turn them off once they're commissioned, that's it it stays on for good!


foreverabumbly

27-Sep-2008
5:05:42 PM

On 26/09/2008 rolsen1 wrote:

>Call me soft but I can't imagine the smell in summer being anything but
>absolutely woeful unless something is done.

your soft

Wendy

27-Sep-2008
6:56:38 PM

Addicted to modern plumbing more than soft ... those loos do stink, but that's because they aren't meant to deal with the usage they get and they end up just as glorified pit loos. When planned to suit expected usage, they will be fine. I have one in my house and it certainly doesn't smell like the campground ones, no smell at all.

Drilling another bore ... that can't be a cheap answer. Pity it's not a very foreward thinking one either.

surfinclimb

27-Sep-2008
9:19:59 PM

On 27/09/2008 bomber pro wrote:
>Hey surfinclimb, that may be because the nuclear reactor that fires the
>thing needs a constant supply of
>water to cool it down, or she goes Chernobyl on you, (read meltdown of
>the reactor core) you can't just turn them off once they're commissioned,
>that's it it stays on for good!

You dont know just how right you might be B.P. Wonthaggi was shortlisted for a reactor about 18 months ago and desal plants go hand in hand with reactors. Of course we have been told to stop being silly little voters because OZ will not build another reactor but it sort of sounds like the G.S.T we were never ever going to have.


Capt_mulch

28-Sep-2008
7:06:16 AM

Bores that stop yielding water don't necessarily run dry due to lack of ground water. Depending on what the ground water is like (i.e. lots of Calcium and Magnesium in it - BTW - is the water 'hard' at the Pines bore?), they can harden up over time and become unproductive, especially if it is a high use bore where the recharge rate is slow (it takes time for the surrounding ground water to seep back into the area around the bottom of the bore hole where the pump is). Sometimes bores can be 'blown out', to get them productive again, or just drilling a new bore can be the answer. I had one put in on the North Coast of NSW about ten years ago, and it cost $75 a metre to drill, so depending on the depth they can be cheap or expensive (my bore was 90 metres deep - my parents one in Sydney is 3 metres deep). Also, bores need to be managed really well to maintain their productivity - when I put my bore in I spent a lot of time working out what the recharge rate was, how much I could pump each day, and how often I could pump. I then closely monitored the flow rate and yield over time. I doubt if the bore at The Pines gets that much attention. Sounds like they need a new bore hole. ($5000 feasibility study??? You could have done a lot of drilling for that, and still had money left over for beers afterwards).


muki

28-Sep-2008
9:15:49 AM

On 28/09/2008 Capt_mulch wrote:

>Sounds like they need a new bore hole.
>($5000 feasibility study??? You could have done a lot of drilling for that, and still had money left over for
>beers afterwards).
Try $50,000
But for all that money we did find out that it's mostly climbers that use the park.
That climbers don't spend much money, therefore not much money to be made.
That there are no real big money spinners in the local area from other tourist attractions.
If that money had been spent on the park, we would have a fantastic camping area,
a visitors information centre, new trees, new composting toilets(enough to make a difference)
track erosion prevention, new track work, shelter tables for campers etc but hey the government
got to pay these guys instead, so at least they are happy.

28-Sep-2008
5:29:18 PM

On 27/09/2008 Wendy wrote:
>Addicted to modern plumbing more than soft ... those loos do stink, but
>that's because they aren't meant to deal with the usage they get and they
>end up just as glorified pit loos.

They were probably planned "for future usage". The dunny situation when I started climbing was a one-can facility where the current flush dunnies are. The other was a gender specific his and hers of one can each near the big pines north of 'the' pines. These were the flash units, they had roofs and doors. The one where the present flush dunnies are, had four walls, no door, no roof and no seat. A branch across the corner kept your bum out of the can. In the good times there was a bottle of phenyl (sp?) to try and keep the smell down.

I dunno, climbers today have it soft. Why when I were a lad ...segue into well known Monty Python sketch.

Access T CliffCare

30-Sep-2008
11:04:39 PM

Hi All,

The contractors hired to drill a new bore have found water at the Mount, so it shouldn't be too long before the toilets are back on bore water again.

IMO,the careful water usage should still stand though at the Campground. Bring as much as your own water as possible. Being careful with how and what we use that water for is a positive for us in the long run, not to mention it just being generally responsible and water wise.

Cheers,
Tracey


muki

1-Oct-2008
5:56:57 AM

using the phrase "the toilets are back on bore water again" and then saying "responsible and water wise"
Is an oxymoron!


wallwombat

1-Oct-2008
6:53:08 AM

Just how expensive are composting toilets?

I realise that at Arapiles you would need a few, but in the long run it seems like the best way to go. I was very impressed with the composting toilet at Balor Hut in the Warrumbungles - no smell at all really.

climberman

1-Oct-2008
7:36:58 AM

One of the issues with composting toilets in public places is the high variety in use, which makes design / capacity etc more difficult.

If you design it for the regular use, it then has trouble coping with the volume at peak periods. If you design it to cope with peak use, they can have trouble coping with enough nutrient inflow to keep composting in the void space over low use periods. Design it midway and it fails at both ends.

When they fail they end up needing pump-out and / or repair which ends up costing as much over the year as a flush... or a permanent regular pump-away system.

Another issue, less of a problem at Araps I suppose, is when people empty their chemical dunnies into composting dunnies, and kill all the composting bacteria and generally fk the system. Grey nomads are great at doing this.

Arapiles has at least a generally drier climate, which is better for composting toilets overall when they are public.

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