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The Pines loosing its pines

gfdonc

9-May-2008
1:03:31 PM

My 2c, here it comes ..

Arapiles is often a hot and sunny place. One of the main attractions of the Pines is the degree of shade it offers. It's comparatively nice.

In general pine plantations are incompatible with indigenous plants and animals. However, I don't see anything wrong with planting 'exotics' for a purpose, any more than building roads or toilet blocks. The Pines is a camping area, constructed and managed for the purposes of camping. It isn't a wildlife refuge (although some residents might justify that label). There's plenty of native bush around, for habitat and other uses.

It's great that the Gums has been established, and I do choose to camp there, because it is quieter and flatter. However, it isn't as pleasant, and I don't expect it to ever be. The shaded mosaic beneath the pines provides something special that I associate with Arapiles.

Pinus Radiata lives a long time, but not indefinitely, Those trees survived having their roots driven over for years, and have survived several years of drought. Chopping them all down for some environmental ethic doesn't get my support.

- Steve

Wendy

9-May-2008
2:51:35 PM

They're not getting chopped down for environmental reasons, Steve, they are dying a natural death of old age (something like 75 years) and have been selectively removed by Parks over the years as they did so.

And I am being pragmatic as well in promoting local species. If you can come up with some suggestions that provide better shade, grow quickly, survive in our climate and soils, don't need babying and don't become weeds, I'm all ears ...

Wendy

tastybigmac

9-May-2008
3:47:50 PM

how about some of those spaghetti trees i saw on tele the other night? that way the permanents don't need to go to the big sham for anything!!

fish boy

9-May-2008
4:16:37 PM

I thought they were for real...

djamieson

9-May-2008
5:00:02 PM

Ranger - HAWKER, Peter
Location - Elmes Street
Natimuk VIC 3409
Email - phawker@parks.vic.gov.au

tastybigmac

10-May-2008
12:31:16 AM

does he know where to get spaghetti trees?


howzithanging?

12-May-2008
5:42:46 PM

i can afford to be general because there are a huge amount of trees that will grow at araps, there have been many already listed on this post
no decent percentage of trees will survive without "babying" no matter what you plant,

sand and caly are very different types of soil. as a matter of fact clay soils tend to be some of the most fertile in australia,

from a profesionals opinion i would say the one of the biggest problems apart from the obvious lack of water (lets pretend we can overcome that) would be cultivating the exsisting soil around the camp, burried rocks, compacted soil, masses of gigantic root systems from the pines... it would be extreemly difficullt to grow anything there that won't be stunted dramatically by the soil condition... it would be an expensive operation that i am sure parks victoria would not be willing to foot the bill

as for some suggestions of what i think could grow genetically speaking
casurinas
allocasurinas
grevillias
eucalypts
melalucas
acacias
angophras

lets bear in mind, even if drought tollerent species are chosen
NO TREE IS DROUGHT TOLLERANT WHEN IT IS A SEEDLING
NO TREE IS DROUGHT TOLLERANT UNTILL ESTABLISHED
MOST TREES WILL TAKE YEARS TO ESTABLISH

WATER
WATER
WATER
WATER
WATER
WATER is the issue

Wendy

12-May-2008
7:50:02 PM

On 12/05/2008 howzithanging? wrote:

>
>as for some suggestions of what i think could grow genetically speaking
>casurinas
>allocasurinas
>grevillias
>eucalypts
>melalucas
>acacias
>angophras

Hey that list covers most of the major tree groups in Australia! Actually, teasing aside, I don't think we are thinking that far apart.

Bullokes and sheoaks (casurinas and allocasurinas) grow naturally around here, although not abundant at the mount and are fantastic characterful trees, but they do grow very slowly and sadly will never provide the sort of extensive shade that the sheokes at Coles Bay do, for example. Check out the Jallumba-Mokinya Road (that's the one to Black Ians) to see what bullokes stands look like out here.

Eucalypts - there are red and yellow gums, yellow, black and grey box that are all indigenous and they do survive well and grow quickly. They are probably the best sources of shade around. Unfortuneatly people seem to stress that they drop limbs and don't like them in camp sites. Whilst they might occasionally, there are plenty of campsites full of eucalypts across australia, and how many deaths have there been from falling limbs?

Acacias - again the mount is full of them. They grow quickly, look beautiful. I mentioned the golden wattle and wallowa which are all over the Mt, there's more than a few other sorts as well. They will, of course, not live as long as the bullokes and eucalypts.

I don't think the mount is over run with melaleucas, but moonah grows in the region, and is very hardy. Grevillias, again, don't really occur out there, but similar small bird attracting shrubs do - I don't know what it's called, but that heathy thing with the white star like flowers that is abundant in the clearer areas just out of the campsite is completely self seeded.

What I am basically arguing (again) is that there are abundant local species that will do the job - why bother and why risk bringing in anything else? In fact, I can't imagine Parks Vic approving of the introduction of species into the park anyway. Plantings of these species are able to survive here without assistance after their first year - even on my compacted clay block with limestone 1 foot down, or along a very saline Natimuk creek and despite the last 10 years of drought.

Wendy


howzithanging?

12-May-2008
9:37:37 PM

well, hopefullly you are right
i am highly doubtfull about these trees that will stand up to drought after one year, but hey i could be wrong.
the reason my list was so broard was because there are many types of trees that would grow in the place of the pines, local and introduced species alike!
whatever is chosen, and eventually planted, i would be more than happy to contribute, time and knowledge.
peace out

13-May-2008
11:39:31 AM

I thought that the "new" campsites at Araps were begun BECAUSE the pines were dying and if that is the case what was the management intention behind it? Get the "new" sites established and close (cut) down the pines and then re-establish the "pines" with what? More radiata? Eucalypts? some decision must have been made a decade ago about what was going to happen.

Maybe the answer can be found here:
Ranger - HAWKER, Peter
Location - Elmes Street
Natimuk VIC 3409
Email - phawker@parks.vic.gov.au

Who here is going to contact him and find out? I'm off to wash the car (using water from the washing machine of course).

Access T CliffCare

13-May-2008
1:21:57 PM

>
>On 13/5/2008 BA wrote
>
>I thought that the "new" campsites at Araps were begun BECAUSE the pines were dying >and if that is the case what was the management intention behind it? Get the "new" sites >established and close (cut) down the pines and then re-establish the "pines" with what? >More radiata? Eucalypts? some decision must have been made a decade ago about what >was going to happen.

>Maybe the answer can be found here:
>Ranger - HAWKER, Peter
>Location - Elmes Street
>Natimuk VIC 3409
>Email - phawker@parks.vic.gov.au
>
>Who here is going to contact him and find out? I'm off to wash the car (using water from the >washing machine of course).

On 21/04/2008 Access T wrote:
>
>Hi All,
>
>Little more info on the pines and its pines and future plans.
>There are two native species to Araps that are being used. Callitris Rhomboidea
>and another (I can't understand my own writing here starts with a pr, could
>it be Callitris pressii?(I shall confirm this) The Rhomboidea has germinated
>well and will be potted out soon and the other one has just started the
>process. There is an approximate time frame - hoping for Autumn planting
>but they would like about 5-8 inches growth to ensure a better rate of
>success. The plan is to fill out some of the gaps as the old pines die
>or become a safety risk and are removed.


Richard

13-May-2008
1:33:35 PM

out of intrest, from my "grow what where" CD:
Natives that are in the followng catagories: very dry conditions, shade trees, farm shelter trees,salt-soil tolerant, large trees (> 12m), windbreaks, and aren't in the "branch dropping" list:

genus species (common name)
Casurina Cristata (Belah)
Eucalyptus Brockwayi (Dundas Mahogany)
Eucalyptus Gomphocephala (Tart Gum)
Eucalyptus Leucoxylon (Blue Gum, White Ironbark, Yellow Gum)
Eucalyptus Loxophleba (York Gum)
Eucalyptus Salmonopholia (Salmon Gum)

(offered with no experience about any of these)


IdratherbeclimbingM9

13-May-2008
3:59:29 PM

>Eucalyptus Leucoxylon (Blue Gum
snip

If this is the same as the 'Sydney blue gum', it is notorious for being a 'limb dropper'.

Wendy wrote;
>What I am basically arguing (again) is that there are abundant local species that will do the job - why bother and why risk bringing in anything else? >In fact, I can't imagine Parks Vic approving of the introduction of species into the park anyway.

~> Makes good sense to me.


Richard

13-May-2008
9:20:26 PM

According to the search results on google, the Sydney Blue Gum is a Eucalyptus saligna, (and some comments do support the sucseptability of these to drop branches)

Cheers

Wendy

14-May-2008
5:31:15 PM

So I followed the very sensible suggestion to just ask parks, and Peter tells me pretty much what Tracy had heard - they have the 1st batch of native pines propagated (by volunteers) and plan to plant out this winter. I also took the opportunity to ask what they were planning to do from the suggestions of that very expensive consultants report and he tells me that it is due to be discussed by the Park Advisory committee next month and that nothing can happen without approval of the advisory committee. He did say that the major concern to be addressed from their point of view is a sustainable water source (in general not just for the trees!) as the current one is inadequate.

Wendy

dazasterplan

29-May-2008
11:48:43 AM

hi wow what wendy says is indeed the answer, i did not suggest we baby the seedlings i do understand that trees need an establishment period. As i said well constucted re-usable shelters may be an option. Whatever they decide the current camping area is to be closed. My worry now turns to what will happen to existing campgrounds, with the rise in numbers in existing areas? Erosion, and compaction more paths etc etc, If they establish a temporary campground will it be permament in the future once the pines is re-opened? What effect will increased users numbers have on the remaining vegetation?Will people have input as to where it will be? Will they finally replace the water using toilet systems with something such as a biolix(black water recycling system seen on new inventors check it out) sewerage system? This will save the cost of pumping out the sewerage and maybe that money can be directed into re-vege around the current campsites to accomodate for future increase in amount of traffic.

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