Chockstone Forum

      Sponsored By
      ROCK
   HARDWARE

Chockstone Photography

Australian Landscape Prints

Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

Author

Who is responsible for bad belaying?


Capt_mulch

21-Nov-2007
3:44:58 PM

No-one on the Internet knows you're a bad belayer.... ;-)

certifi

21-Nov-2007
4:02:22 PM

ok ok jeeeezzzzz. im making these long defencive post because i dont want people to have the wrong
idea. its just a bit annoying to jump on your second favourite website and see some bad reports about
you especially after your climber/friend thats just bailed back to italy has blasted you for something thats
noones fault. i just wanted a fair thread is all. im happy with what went down. he didnt hit the ground after
all, it was my fault eye was in the way and if i hadnt been this wouldnt have been an issue. besides with
the massive bags under my eyes from exams, the shiner didnt even show.

can you not say "the 16 year old" its a little patronising i feel, everybody refer to me as lachlan please


Capt_mulch

21-Nov-2007
4:04:30 PM

What's this second favourite website business? All your pro will rip on your next fall for that one...


Capt_mulch

21-Nov-2007
4:06:11 PM

No-one on the Internet knows you're 16... except for now that is.

dalai

21-Nov-2007
4:27:35 PM

Interesting how this topic has progressed.

Observations...

Joad made no mention of names in any of his posts, just saw an incident and used it as the basis to start a discussion - Certifi replied it was he and was on the defensive immediately.

Age was irrelevant, yet Certifi brought it into the discussion which made it relevant and was subsequently used in discussion. Once again now he is upset over someone else mentioning it...

Accidents unfortunately happen. By discussing it and the factors surrounding it only helps to clarify where improvements can be made and hopefully not be repeated.

A good outcome in my opinion...

Now lets all just take a deep breath.


bluey

21-Nov-2007
4:42:22 PM

The Lama has spoken.

One last thing though - didn't mean to be patronising but acknowledge it may have sounded that way. Was just trying to suggest that there may be some connection between your high level of concern about what others think of you and your age.


nmonteith

21-Nov-2007
4:52:11 PM

On 21/11/2007 certifi wrote:
>can you not say "the 16 year old" its a little patronising i feel, everybody
>refer to me as lachlan please

Hello Lachlan (there goes any hope of anonymity!)


Organ Pipe

21-Nov-2007
5:14:10 PM

Hey Lachlan,

A week or two from now and you'll look back on this episode with much more pleasent feelings. We've all copped abuse, or overly keen criticism at one time or another on Chockstone, but don't let that make you forget that we're still a great bunch of folk who share a common passion, and Chockstone is a fantastic resource for that community.

You obviously had a 'bad' moment at the gym the other night. Most of us can recount occastions when we've had 'bad' moments too. They happen, you have no doubt learnt from this one, you will no doubt have other close calls in the future too (whether these be human error or otherwise).

Chin up, good luck, try not to take it too much to heart, and see you at the gym or crag sometime.


zumojugo

21-Nov-2007
5:37:39 PM

On 21/11/2007 Organ Pipe wrote:
>We've all copped abuse, or overly keen criticism
>at one time or another on Chockstone, but don't let that make you forget
>that we're still a great bunch of folk who share a common passion,

And with any luck, once you've calmed down and don't feel so agreived (how do you spell that word?) by
it you realise that there's a hell of a lot of good advice amongst it all. I did. Eventually!

certifi

21-Nov-2007
5:37:48 PM

the last four posts mad me smile. ;) thanks guys, i did have a bit of a bad one the other, exams, other
people shit, andrea going back. i guess i was a little deffencive and i did fly of the rail a little. and i did
learn from it, weather the climbing or the after conversation. i dont care about the name thing. im trying to
tap into the wider climbing community, not hide from it. i guess even though joad made no reference to
my name its pritty obvious to me that it was me in the centre of the topic and i wanted to let people know
the whole situation as i knew it to be, but i could have gone about it a little beter. i dont know why i
mentioned my age, i guess it was relevant as teens are known for there self conciousness and the "ah
the world is out to get me!" typo thing. anyway every one f's up, bound to get you hurt at some stage or
another. got to school next day noone noticed my black eye untill i pointed it out, so i guess i wasnt that
bad. cheers guys

PS dalai your post mad my day


OzA

26-Nov-2007
11:49:20 AM

certifi, I was there when the incident happened. I had a similar lead fall due to a loose hold just before the 3rd clip. Fortunately I only landed on my belayers head. He was standing with his shoulder against the wall.
IMHO the fact that your lead did not hit the ground means that you have done your job as a belayer, whether your lead thinks so our not.
As a lead I will always issue instructions to my belayer before every climb as to how they are to belay as every climb is different.
I think that the lead is responsible for how the belayer should be belaying and should issue instructions through out the climb.
Noise is no excuse, and I think that being able to read your leads body actions and hand signals more important than being able to hear them.
As a lead I also acknowledge that there are additional risks when climbing, such as poor clip placements, but as a outdoor trad climber it is more realistic as you can't have perfectly spaced bolts/placement on a natural wall.
No single person is at fault, but I personally think after witnessing that fall that the climber was more at fault as they did not correctly communicate how they prefer to be belayed.

widewetandslippery

26-Nov-2007
12:55:06 PM

I said that in the beginning with less words "Natural selection. If you let a bad belayer belay you.........splat. ha ha "

certifi

27-Nov-2007
6:02:56 PM

jutzy can i get an amen? finally someone who accuratly percivied my side of the incident. might i say
once more that noise was not an excuse its was an example of a variable


Joad

28-Nov-2007
2:34:56 PM

On 27/11/2007 certifi wrote:
finally someone who accuratly percivied my side
>of the incident.

Are you studying politics, I'm not sure I understand that sentence at all


Macciza

28-Nov-2007
4:25:09 PM

After talking to my kids who have belayed since they were little, we decided that belaying is basically a
life or death situation - both people take responsibility but ultimately it's your fault as a climber if you lob
in a bad situation and expect your belayer to have to deal with as they are only there as backup for your
skills, or lack of, as a climber.
And after a bit of further reflection, we basically figure it's all gravity's fault in the end and that you really
can't argue too well against universal constants


Organ Pipe

29-Nov-2007
11:18:54 AM

Is it a reflection of todays western world* that we contemplate fault so much?
Or has it always been this way in the AUS climbing community?

*U.S. led litigation fever!


OzA

4-Dec-2007
10:31:57 AM

Nah I think your confusing US bureaucracy with the western world. Only Americans think they can get something for nothing. **looking round** Hmm.. no Americans here? Where have they gone?


Macciza

4-Dec-2007
5:12:24 PM

On 29/11/2007 Organ Pipe wrote:
>Is it a reflection of todays western world* that we contemplate fault so much?

No I think it is a gym/sport climbing thing - us oldies know climbing is dangerous, that shit happens and
we accept that. It;s when you start thinking climbing is safe and that your belayer is supposed to
magically save you when you stuff up that people seem to want to lay blame . . .


rodw

4-Dec-2007
10:56:34 PM

Spoken like an old man Macciza.."In my day...blah blah blah" :)

People have always layed blame...now its just easier to have a bigger audience to do it.


steph

5-Dec-2007
11:47:11 AM

"back in the day, we belayed with the rope around our waists kickin' back in hobnail boots and usin' nuts from the railway tracks as pro."

younguns these days *shakes head*
hehe

There are 83 messages in this topic.