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Australian Landscape Photography by Michael Boniwell
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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

 Page 3 of 5. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 91
Author
Aid Climbing Help
brendan
1-Nov-2007
8:02:31 AM
don't worry nick i am a gear freak to

Capt_mulch
1-Nov-2007
9:05:44 AM
> i am a gear freak too
So Rod, apart from the stuff you would find on a Trad rack, what would you consider to be the essential gear to have for aiding (any brand preferences too?).

wallwombat
1-Nov-2007
9:55:09 AM
I know the question was addressed to Rod but here's my 2 cents worth.

- Etriers. 2 will do. 3 is better. 4 better still.
- 2 Daisy chains.
- Ascenders.
- Lots of spare carabiners.
- A couple of hooks are handy though not really essential. BD Talons are good as they each offer 3 hook sizes.

Combining 2 decent trad racks should be enough to get up most things here, but you do use lots of carabiners.

And comfy shoes. Standing in aiders for long periods of time in tight climbing shoes will kill your feet. Mine hurt just thinking about it. Ouch!

IdratherbeclimbingM9
1-Nov-2007
10:25:31 AM
>apart from the stuff you would find on a Trad rack, what would you consider to be the essential gear to have for aiding (any brand preferences too?).

What wallwombat wrote; though you could substitute cord for the daisies.

On quite another level the answer to your question largely depends on what you intend climbing, and in what style.

Clean aid on hard routes can involve esoteric hand made gear for peculiar 'one-off' situations.

Some Aid climbers carry 'cheat sticks', so they don't have to resort to using a hammer.
... Even on clean aid I still carry a hammer to use with my funkness device. I find it much easier to clean stuck pro with it (the funkness), and the hammer handle helps protect my harness during abseils.

Leeper cam hooks can be an excellent addition, but I find my home made ones fill the need as much as has arisen for me to date.

A helmet is always a good idea. On aid it helps protect the noggin from gear that rips during testing.

Some folk reckon fingerless gloves are trick for helping prevent gobis.

A water supply can be good; likewise a P-bottle for long leads; ... your belayer would reckon that an essential!

The most 'essential' item you need is the right mindset to the task. Enthusiasm goes a long way in this respect ..., and I note that you already have that.

Oh; plenty of time, and a patient belayer don't go astray either!

wallwombat
1-Nov-2007
10:33:08 AM
On 1/11/2007 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>Oh; plenty of time, and a patient belayer don't go astray either!

GriGris or similar belay devices can be handy in this respect. It can be a pain in the arse having to watch a leader constantly during an extended aid lead.

muki
1-Nov-2007
10:57:37 AM
All of M9's tips are gold, but these will also help alot: fifi hooks on both leader and seconds harnesses,
to easily use the et's (cloth ladders) in combo with the daisy's, as the leader will have two et's, and
seconder will have the same setup.
The funkness devise is a good tip, mine is made from stainless steel cable 4mm and crimped at both
ends to form loops that attach to the hammer and the gear being funked on lead or cleaned on second
or both if solo aiding.
a chest harness that redirects the rope through a higher center of gravity is nice, and doubles as a
place to hang extra gear and reduce the cluster f#@&.
helmets are standard for this activity, as a fall will often be unexpected and in odd directions if they
happen while leaning off the aid to try and reach a placement up and off to the side.
a small first aid kit is good too, even if its just for the cuts and scrapes that are results of the effort
involved in getting in those deep pieces in rough slots of stone like at buffalo.
if you are with a partner a tag line is handy, to get the gear you need without having to carry it all, a
real bonus when on body weight pieces like mashies.
as for a cheat stick, the lightest and most portable ones are the fiberglass tent poles that have slot
together sections linked with elastic to keep it all together, these can even be modified to allow for the
placement of cams with a bit of fine cord and a small piece of elastic cord.
And a true aid standby that has somhow escaped every ones lists is the tried and true Gaffer tape,
this is such a multi purpose tool, from running repairs on clothing and gear to "securing" the odd hook.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
1-Nov-2007
11:18:55 AM
bomber pro wrote;

... more gold!

(I must be getting slack. Can't believe I left off fifi's ! ... use two myself; - on different length cords). ~ a krab, possibly with its gate duct taped open can substitute.

I use a cheap extendable handle for a cheat stick. The type that is often found on brooms/mops, ie you rotate-twist the handle, and the innner extension can be withdrawn then twist to lock it in place at desired length.
I have a longer aluminium one for particularly specialised use, but have only justifiably ever used it once on a climb at Bungonia, as it is generally too heavy to warrant taking it.
My experimentation with fibreglass poles found them to be too floppy when trying to stick clip rope to pro.

The gaffer tape idea is gold for sure.
Similar flavour, a couple of heavy duty rubber bands can help when attaching stuff to cheat sticks.

This advice in one sense is all rather old school. Next thing you will be needing a haul bag to tote it all and a portaledge to make the journey comfy!

The new vogue is fast and light with minimal gear.
To make this style work you have to be efficient, and that only comes from yardage (or should I say metres being new vogue?, heh, heh), on the rock ...

muki
1-Nov-2007
2:16:24 PM
HI M9, the pole that I was using came from a big family tent, not the standard flimsy small tent, these
poles are about 10/11mm thick as apposed to 7/8mm thick, and are stiff enough if you cut them down
from the original 5m to about 4m (6 poles), pack up dimensions are about 660mm long and weigh very
little compared with the average 3m(full extension) painters pole.
The modification also allows the bigger cams/hexes to be placed, as well as clipping a high bolt.

Capt_mulch
1-Nov-2007
2:42:09 PM
Calling all aid gurus - any comments on the gear below before I push the "go to checkout" button - all prices are in US dollars (close enuf to Ozi now!)

2 Black Diamond Fifi Hook Various N/A $8.95
1 Gerber Paraframe Mini Steel N/A $12.95
2 Metolius Nylon Daisy Chain Various N/A $17.95
2 Metolius Etrier/Aider Various 1 in. 5-Step $31.95
1 Black Diamond Talon Black One Size $16.50
1 Petzl Grigri Blue N/A $85.95
6 Mammut Standard Screwgate (Fall 2006) Various One Size $5.50
2 Mammut 6mm Dyneema Contact Slings Various 30 cm $5.00
2 Mammut 6mm Dyneema Contact Slings Various 120 cm $12.50
1 Wild Country Wired RockCentrics N/A #3 $6.57
1 Wild Country Wired RockCentrics N/A #4 $6.57
1 Wild Country Wired RockCentrics N/A #5 $7.95
1 Yates Pin-Head Cabled Gear Puller N/A One Size $7.00
1 Metolius Zodiac Various One Size $69.00
1 Leeper Narrow Logan Hook Black 1/8in. tip $7.95
1 Leeper Wide Logan Hook Black 1/2in. tip $7.95
1 Petzl Ascension Blue Right-Hand $59.95
1 Yates Heads Aluminum #1 $3.00
1 Yates Heads Copper #1 $3.00
1 Yates Heads Aluminum #2 $3.00
1 Yates Heads Copper #2 $3.00
1 Yates Heads Aluminum #3 $3.25
1 Yates Heads Aluminum #4 $3.25
1 Yates Double Heads Copper #1 $3.75
1 Yates Double Heads Copper #2 $3.75
1 Yates Double Heads Aluminum #3 $3.75
1 Yates Double Heads Copper #0 $3.75

wallwombat
1-Nov-2007
2:53:45 PM
You won't need the heads in Oz.

Capt_mulch
1-Nov-2007
2:57:13 PM
Thanks Adam - why is that BTW?

skink
1-Nov-2007
3:16:10 PM
In terms of comments, do you also want a heads up on aid gear missing from that list?

I can see how getting two Leeper cam hooks and a set of offset nuts would be good if you are shopping and they are available from the source. Which online store is this shopping list from - maybe we can all go in and see what they have and optimise your cart - viva internet group shopping (glad its your credit card :-)

Links:
Leeper cam hooks - (http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524441932053&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302691115&bmUID=1193889929669)

Offset nuts:
Best - http://www.yosemitegifts.com/hboffsets.html
Also rans - DMM Peenuts, BD Micro Stoppers(http://www.bdel.com/gear/micro_stoppers.php)

wallwombat
1-Nov-2007
3:21:33 PM
I think that any climbs that needed copper heads in the first place probably have them fixed. Unless you know of a big , unclimbed granite cliff somewhere with potential hard aid routes I think you are better off buying something else. Maybe a few pins and a hammer.

Bomber and M9 might say I'm wrong here but thats what I think.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
1-Nov-2007
3:25:44 PM
>comments

Off the top of my head ~

Expensive list …

Is the above list in addition to your free climbing rack?

Seems to me you are buying stuff that you will seldom need/use, particularly the ‘heads’. If you do go for heads then a couple of #2 is all you would likely ever use (in emergency ie a trade route with missing fixed gear!), unless you plan on putting up a long & hard new route (read M6 or better), as ‘heading’ is often more ‘out there’ than hooking!
IMO it is a crime to place a head anywhere a nut will go. An example of fine heading being Copperhead Road at Mt Buffalo which is many heads in a row and goes at grade M9; often being heads in incipient flares between granite rugosities/crystals where blank overlaps/undulations occur, or seams too shallow for beaks.

Are you ‘dabbling’ or going ‘serious’? If dabbling then hand tied etts will get you up an Oz wall or two, before you feel the need to commit big $ to the game. You may have had enough by then!

You plan on jugging with a grigri and an ascension? … (not the most efficient way imo).

Can get one adjustable fifi cheaper (or adjustable daisies), and will be more versatile (and lighter), than two.

6 x screwgates for multipitch? How much gear does your partner have? …, as you could use most of those on one hanging belay!

2 x medium and 2 x long slings? … How many quickdraws? I often go with 15 qd’s, 10 medium and 4 long slings. If it is a new route or a long unknown one I take more! … and that is without hero loops!!

#’s 3,4,5 nuts ~ I assume they are double ups? I’d get a set of RP’s before I went for doubles …

I’d forego the narrow logan hook unless you plan on bathooking. (Clouded Queen anybody?).

Will think about it and may come back with more suggestions.


Capt_mulch
1-Nov-2007
3:27:53 PM
www.backcountrygear.com - they've got some great prices and have no probs shipping internationally - and the shipping isn't too bad either (they don't insist on UPS). They have a really good range of gear too. Any other suggestions would be good - some of the gear is to help round off my other gear - I have a decent trad rack, already have a LH Petzl ascender etc. I didn't worry about a hammer and pitons - are they used much here??

IdratherbeclimbingM9
1-Nov-2007
3:34:24 PM
>I didn't worry about a hammer and pitons - are they used much here??

In my opinion 'no' is the general answer, though some of the lads from Canberra have no qualms about using them; ... however they have gone on to the greater ranges to continue the art.

Clean aid is the aim these days.

Btw ... you need a hammer (plus), to place heads.

penguinator
1-Nov-2007
3:35:54 PM
I would get a hammer and some pitons just for the sheer sadistic pleasure of going to town on some mangy unclimbed section of a crag. But that's just me :)

Have you had a look at adjustable daisies?

wallwombat
1-Nov-2007
3:36:38 PM
I have a spare BD Talon. I've got 3 (I don't know how I ended up with 3) as well as a BD Grappling Hook and a BD Sky Hook.

I tried to flog it on ebay but no one was interested.

You're more than welcome to have it if you want. It will also cover the same size holes as the narrow Logan.

I also have two tied old tied and sewn etriers that I used to use before I bought some. You can have them too.

Capt_mulch
1-Nov-2007
3:39:43 PM
Thanks Rod, that was my impression - can you suggest a good hammer?

IdratherbeclimbingM9
1-Nov-2007
3:45:06 PM
Black Diamond sets the standard for functional well balanced hammers imo.

 Page 3 of 5. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 91
There are 91 messages in this topic.

 

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