Chockstone Forum

      Sponsored By
      ROCK
   HARDWARE

Chockstone Photography

Australian Landscape Prints

Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

Author

Scenario Thread


wallwombat

14-Sep-2007
10:32:02 PM

I think this scenario shows the importance of having a couple of prussicks that pretty much LIVE on your harness, if you do any kind of multi-pitch or trad climbing.

richardo

14-Sep-2007
10:34:13 PM

I don't have experience of this - but could a single cross caribiner be a good comprimise between friction
and a safe descent on a weighted rope?

As I say - I have no experience - but seems maybe it could work?


Chuck Norris

14-Sep-2007
10:42:46 PM

kieranl

14-Sep-2007
10:47:21 PM

On 14/09/2007 richardo wrote:
>I don't have experience of this - but could a single cross caribiner be
>a good comprimise between friction
>and a safe descent on a weighted rope?
>
No. A cross carabiner abseil device will not move on a weighted rope. It will only move if you release the friction load which in this case is the weight of your unconscious companion. Think about it : your friend is hanging below you on an 11mm rope - can you lift them by pulling on the rope? That is what you would have to do. It is not a feasible rescue scenario.

kieranl

14-Sep-2007
10:48:29 PM

On 14/09/2007 stugang wrote:
>Agree. I used to always have a prussick as a chalk bag string...dunno
>why I stopped doing it to be
>honest...
ditto.


Chuck Norris

14-Sep-2007
10:54:16 PM

I have no answers but i am now curious about options/possibilities for descending a weighted rope
without prussicks (nor any similar replacement).

Any ideas?


Sabu

14-Sep-2007
10:55:25 PM

On 14/09/2007 wallwombat wrote:
>I think this scenario shows the importance of having a couple of prussicks
>that pretty much LIVE on your harness, if you do any kind of multi-pitch
>or trad climbing.
Thats what i have, 2 prussik loops with a crab that never leave my harness. However i've come to the realisation that one would more than 2 after escaping the belay and prussiking, the more the merrier!

So some summary notes on equipment: Pocket knife, small first aid kit (that can be carried in a daypack on a multi pitch climb), prussiks and possibly some sort of communication device; mobile phone or emergency beacon.
Using such equipment and a few techniques (like kieran stressed) such as escaping the belay, one would have a chance of sorting themselves out in an emergency.
Hopefully this thread demonstrates to unaware or beginner climbers (or even experienced leaders who just need a refresher) such a need for rescue equipment and techniques when climbing.

kieranl

14-Sep-2007
10:56:18 PM

A question for you people with advanced first aid skills - imrpovising collars. I was thinking about it driving home from near Wycheproof this afternoon and the only thing I could think of that people would be guaranteed to have with them that is semi-rigid are their climbing shoes. What would be the best way to use these to improvise a collar?


Macciza

14-Sep-2007
10:58:24 PM

I guess the main focus had been on technical skills thats why little medical info but good call anyway
Cervical collars need to be able to stabilise the whole neck - not sure about the shoe . .
Waist band from pack is good or maybe bits from a harness if available - padded leg loops could be
used and slings used for the replacement, Clotheing is another option - maybe rip sleeves off jacket
Check and hope like hell there is no spinal fluid leakage from ears and if there is it's serious

Also depending on how long they were hanging in harness you may not want to lay them straight down
due to toxic pooling of blood in legs . Be aware of hang syndrome if it took a long time to reach them.

Agree with the stuff about lowering - as mentioned earlier, you really should be tandem lowering so you
can monitor the cas. Where possible I would be inclined to raise the cas or climb out in the Blue'ies
due to the terrain. Helicopter extractopn is going to be easier from the plateau,

First scenario - I would try for raising cas to 4th belay then rope solo/solo out, head to car, raise alarm
return and be able to reaccess cas easily compared to leaving them at 3rd belay Hard call definitely

Second scrnario - should have enough rope for assisted hoist(z) otherwise counterweight haul cas to
traverse line. Either set fixed traverse line or relead then belay them to next belay. If they can't do that
then it would need pendulum lower/hauls to manouvre them below next belay then counterweight haul.
If badly injured you would need to get them back to the halfway ledge then rope solo out the gully to
the left and go for help


gordoste

14-Sep-2007
11:00:23 PM

a few things i ALWAYS have while climbing... 3 prussicks on a snapgate, headtorch (in my backpack), cordelette (unless it's being used at the belay), two spare small screwgates (BD have some good ones), nut tool (i even carry this on bolted climbs, just as a habit)

kieranl

14-Sep-2007
11:06:18 PM

I'm going to bed. Good to see a thread where people are really working on something, though I'm not sure that peeing on someone to see if they are unconscious is strictly ethical. It might be effective but...


Chuck Norris

14-Sep-2007
11:09:01 PM

reading all this I now always feel unprepared. I'll be honest I never take anything other than the rack &
maybe some water if think i'll need it.


Macciza

14-Sep-2007
11:20:32 PM

On 14/09/2007 stugang wrote:
>I have no answers but i am now curious about options/possibilities for
>descending a weighted rope
>without prussicks (nor any similar replacement).
>
>Any ideas?
>

That makes a really good scenario -
Unconcious climber free-hanging full rope-length below, no prussiks or similar replacements . .
You need to descend weighted rope and reach cas safely he has 3 prussiks& biners to get back up

About the only thing that pops into my mind is to tie or link 2 biners together so their spines are in a
narrow 'V' shape, This is place around rope and then a sling / narrow end of a biner joins these to your
harness. Weight that point squeezes the biners together creating friction to stop you sliding down rope
then you can force your way down. I will have to see if it works . . . .
Actually come to think of it could probably force a cross-biner set up onto a tightrope somehow . . .


Chuck Norris

14-Sep-2007
11:24:49 PM

On 14/09/2007 Macciza wrote:
I will have to see if it works . .
>. .

I hope you don't have to kill someone in the testing process...as i'll begin to feel very guilty if you do.


muki

15-Sep-2007
1:15:44 AM

In Answer to the neck brace question, when I did my wilderness first aid course the best option for a
person with nothing but the shirt on your back, is the shirt on your back! just twist it tightly in a spiral till it
feels solid, and then coil it around the casualtys neck, maintaining airways, stack the coils on top of
each other as you would a coil pot, then use another garment like a singlet or t-shirt to go over that, the
best way is to put the t-shirt over their head then pleat it so it's snug at the base of neck, then lift it to the
top of the brace, give it a one quarter rotation, and drop it down to the base again- repeat, like a tube
bandage you would use on a finger or knee, you have to remove the arms and neck hole first to form the
tube of fabric.


Eduardo Slabofvic

15-Sep-2007
11:28:29 AM

On 14/09/2007 stugang wrote:
>I have no answers but i am now curious about options/possibilities for
>descending a weighted rope
>without prussicks (nor any similar replacement).
>
>Any ideas?

I recommend you do "the Human Gri Gri", which is where you grap the rope between your buttock cheeks,
then by pulling on the handle on the front of the device you can release some pressure, and descend.

kieranl

15-Sep-2007
7:47:16 PM

On 15/09/2007 Eduardo Slabofvic wrote:
>I recommend you do "the Human Gri Gri", which is where you grap the rope
>between your buttock cheeks,
>then by pulling on the handle on the front of the device you can release
>some pressure, and descend.
... and fart frequently to maintain a gaseous cushion between your buttock cheeks and the rope.


Macciza

15-Sep-2007
8:09:27 PM

Well it kinda works but I did not get to do a full trial just a little proof of concept, it is maybe a tad dodgy
and could possibly fail catastrophically - file under Shackleton techniques with remote releaseable knots.

The only other thing I thought of at the time involves clipping a biner round the rope then jiggling the
climber so that you can reclip the rope resulting in a single twist of rope around the spine of the biner, clip
into this it should work fairly well


muki

15-Sep-2007
8:14:17 PM

On 14/09/2007 stugang wrote:
>I have no answers but i am now curious about options/possibilities for
>descending a weighted rope
>without prussicks (nor any similar replacement).
>
>Any ideas?

The only way down without prusics on a tight line is to clip to the harness onto the line with a draw, or
two opposing draws, then wrap your legs around the rope creating as much friction as you can while
hand over handing down to the next bit of pro bellow you, have a rest, unclip the pro clip it back in if
needed then repeat.


gordoste

16-Sep-2007
6:28:58 PM

unless you have enough gear to set up some kind of pulley system which gives you a mechanical advantage. actually, i was wondering, what is the minimum amount of gear required to set up a 2:1 mechanical advantage? (which is probably enough to hoist someone a couple of metres before you run out of steam). And what would it look like? Is it possible to set up a pulley system with regular climbing gear?

There are 68 messages in this topic.