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Scarpa: Scarpa "Mystic GTX" Approach Shoe. Premium model. Gortex lined. Vibram Sole. Climbing toe... Size 43 Eur. (10 USm)<style>.aqs2{position:absolute;clip:rect(469px,auto,auto,399px);}<style><div class=aqs2><a href=http:xoxviagra.com >viagra<a><di  $149.00 <br><font size="2" color="#F0F000"><b>50% Off</b></font> </FONT> </td> </tr> </table> <p> <table width="145" cellpadding="8" ID="Table1"> <tr> <td align="center"> <font face="Arial" size="2" color="#ffffff"> <b> <a href="http://www.chockstonephotos.com" style="color: #ffffff"> <img border="1" src="/images/ChockstonePhotography.gif" border="0" alt="Chockstone Photography"> <img src="http://chockstone.smugmug.com/photos/1285033267_DjBnbCV-Ti.jpg" alt="Australian Landscape Photography by Michael Boniwell" border="0" vspace="3" width="100" height="67" style="border: 3px solid #111111"/> <br>Australian Landscape Prints </a> <br> </b> </font> </td> </tr> </table> <br> <br> <table width="140" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td align=center> <script async src="//pagead2.googlesyndication.com/pagead/js/adsbygoogle.js"></script> <!-- Chockstone --> <ins class="adsbygoogle" style="display:inline-block;width:120px;height:600px" data-ad-client="ca-pub-7690652039861025" data-ad-slot="7975488107"></ins> <script> (adsbygoogle = window.adsbygoogle || []).push({}); </script> </td> </tr> </table> <br> </td> <td valign="top" align="left"> <font FACE="Arial"><br> <b> <a href="Forum.asp?Action=Forum&ForumID=1"> <img border="0" src="mountain.GIF" align="right" hspace="2" vspace="10"> </a> </b> </font> <font FACE="Arial" size="4"><b>Chockstone Forum - General Discussion</b></font> <p> <font FACE="Arial"> General Climbing Discussion </font> </p> <table width="100%"> <tr> <td valign="top"> <form name="form" action="Forum.asp" method="post"> <input type="submit" name="Action" value="Login" STYLE="FONT-FAMILY: Arial,Helvetica; FONT-SIZE: 9pt"> <input type="hidden" name="ForumID" value="1"> </form> </td> <td valign="top" align="right"> <form name="form" action="Forum.asp" method="post"> <input type="submit" name="Action" value="New Topic" STYLE="FONT-FAMILY: Arial,Helvetica; FONT-SIZE: 9pt"> <input type="submit" name="Action" value="New Poll" STYLE="FONT-FAMILY: Arial,Helvetica; FONT-SIZE: 9pt"> <input type="submit" name="Action" value="Topics" STYLE="FONT-FAMILY: Arial,Helvetica; 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FONT-SIZE: 8pt"> <input type="submit" name="Action" value="Reply" STYLE="FONT-FAMILY: Arial,Helvetica; FONT-SIZE: 8pt"> </form> </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td valign="top"> <font FACE="Arial" Size="2"> i would have found a ring then lowered off thus leaving nothing behind </font> </td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#EEE0E1"> <td valign="top" nowrap> <font FACE="Arial" Size="2"> <table width="100%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tr> <td> <img border="0" src="WIZARD.gif" width="32" height="32" vspace="2"><br> </td> <td align="right" valign="top"> </td> </tr> <tr> <td> <font FACE="Arial" Size="2"> <a href="Forum.asp?ForumID=1&Action=Profile&UserName=Macciza" title="View User's Profile">Macciza</a> </font> </td> <td align="right" valign="top"> </td> </tr> </table> </font> <font FACE="Arial" Size="1"> 10/09/2007<br>7:57:21 PM<br> </font> <table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0"> <tr> <td nowrap> <form name="form" action="Forum.asp" method="post"> <input type="hidden" name="ForumID" value="1"> <input type="hidden" name="MessageID" value="51634"> <input type="hidden" name="PagePos" value=""> <input type="hidden" name="Sort" value=""> <input type="submit" name="Action" value="View" STYLE="FONT-FAMILY: Arial,Helvetica; FONT-SIZE: 8pt"> <input type="submit" name="Action" value="Reply" STYLE="FONT-FAMILY: Arial,Helvetica; FONT-SIZE: 8pt"> </form> </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td valign="top"> <font FACE="Arial" Size="2"> On 10/09/2007 wyt91t wrote:<br> <font color=822222>>i would have found a ring then lowered off thus leaving nothing behind<br></font> <br> Wow - what an amazing idea? Depending on the crag you could be traversing for a long long time? </font> </td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#FFF0E1"> <td valign="top" nowrap> <font FACE="Arial" Size="2"> <table width="100%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tr> <td> <img border="0" src="topop4.gif" width="32" height="32" vspace="2"><br> </td> <td align="right" valign="top"> </td> </tr> <tr> <td> <font FACE="Arial" Size="2"> <a href="Forum.asp?ForumID=1&Action=Profile&UserName=mousey" title="View User's Profile">mousey</a> </font> </td> <td align="right" valign="top"> </td> </tr> </table> </font> <font FACE="Arial" Size="1"> 10/09/2007<br>8:19:32 PM<br> </font> <table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0"> <tr> <td nowrap> <form name="form" action="Forum.asp" method="post"> <input type="hidden" name="ForumID" value="1"> <input type="hidden" name="MessageID" value="51635"> <input type="hidden" name="PagePos" value=""> <input type="hidden" name="Sort" value=""> <input type="submit" name="Action" value="View" STYLE="FONT-FAMILY: Arial,Helvetica; FONT-SIZE: 8pt"> <input type="submit" name="Action" value="Reply" STYLE="FONT-FAMILY: Arial,Helvetica; FONT-SIZE: 8pt"> </form> </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td valign="top"> <font FACE="Arial" Size="2"> if there's no rings, whitey is very unlikely to be climbing there anyway </font> </td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#EEE0E1"> <td valign="top" nowrap> <font FACE="Arial" Size="2"> <table width="100%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tr> <td> <img border="0" src="CALVIN.gif" width="32" height="32" vspace="2"><br> </td> <td align="right" valign="top"> </td> </tr> <tr> <td> <font FACE="Arial" Size="2"> <a href="Forum.asp?ForumID=1&Action=Profile&UserName=skink" title="View User's Profile">skink</a> </font> </td> <td align="right" valign="top"> </td> </tr> </table> </font> <font FACE="Arial" Size="1"> 10/09/2007<br>8:29:00 PM<br> </font> <table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0"> <tr> <td nowrap> <form name="form" action="Forum.asp" method="post"> <input type="hidden" name="ForumID" value="1"> <input type="hidden" name="MessageID" value="51636"> <input type="hidden" name="PagePos" value=""> <input type="hidden" name="Sort" value=""> <input type="submit" name="Action" value="View" STYLE="FONT-FAMILY: Arial,Helvetica; FONT-SIZE: 8pt"> <input type="submit" name="Action" value="Reply" STYLE="FONT-FAMILY: Arial,Helvetica; FONT-SIZE: 8pt"> </form> </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td valign="top"> <font FACE="Arial" Size="2"> On 10/09/2007 Macciza wrote:<br> <font color=822222>>Jeez - what is it with climbers today? 'Every' glue-in needs to be tested?<br></font> <font color=822222>>All carrots suck? Man up!<br></font> <font color=822222>>The loads you are putting on the stuff are miniscule! 2kN at most - a<br></font> <font color=822222>>rurp or 2 RP would hold it!<br></font> <br> I would never rap of a #2 RP, and I don't generally carry a rurp.<br> <br> <font color=822222>>I assume both people were siting on the bolt at some point before rapping<br></font> <font color=822222>>- therefore they have <br></font> <font color=822222>>effectively tested it to slightly over 2 body weights -with movement lets<br></font> <font color=822222>>say 200 kg.<br></font> <br> Nope, I understood one of them traversed in to the bolt in question, so the point is to treat it with some suspicion before committing two lives to it.<br> <br> <font color=822222>>So he lowers the climber the load is slightly less than 2 BW due to lowering<br></font> <font color=822222>>rate - <br></font> <br> Nonsense, if you lower some one at a steady rate the force is a constant BW. Anytime you lock them off and they bounce, the force spikes above BW by some amount (prolly small though).<br> <br> <font color=822222>>2 people simulrapping is exactly the same except more fun and you can<br></font> <font color=822222>>talk on the way down you <br></font> <font color=822222>>both get down quicker and can walk out earlier and if it goes wrong neither<br></font> <font color=822222>>of you are left with a dead <br></font> <font color=822222>>mate.<br></font> <br> 2 people rapping is at least double the load on the anchor, potentially more if you get some synchronised bouncing going a la SAS embassy invasions.<br> <br> <font color=822222>>The extra weight is really not an issue - the wire rated at ~10kN<br></font> <font color=822222>>the bolts probably good for 20 - <br></font> <font color=822222>>neither of them is very likely to get pushed off or out by a subterrainian<br></font> <font color=822222>>gnome! Doubling up on biners <br></font> <font color=822222>>is rarely necessary IMHO whatever the books say and if using a mallion<br></font> <font color=822222>>don't use one that's too thin<br></font> <br> Agree the gear strength is not an issue... it is the bolt connection to the rock that I would be most concerned with - bottomed out carrot bashed one too many times, that one glue-in put in with the dregs in the glue gun, hole not dusted clean, yadda yadda yadda<br> <font color=822222>><br></font> <font color=822222>>Does anyone else on this forum actually know how to sit on a drawed carrot<br></font> <font color=822222>>and still put a wire on the <br></font> <font color=822222>>bolt take of the draw and bolt plate then rap? (Edi:t apart from Josh<br></font> <font color=822222>>and Kyle)<br></font> <br> I think you three guys are the only ones who actually climb<br> <br> <font color=822222>><br></font> <font color=822222>>And for godsakes people if it were a nice shiny ring surely you would<br></font> <font color=822222>>just thread it and simulrap if you <br></font> <font color=822222>>were both sitting on it? <br></font> <br> Yep, after giving it a bit of a bounce :-)<br> <br> <font color=822222>>Every time a bolt gets fallen on it is essentially being load tested -<br></font> <font color=822222>>if it is there when you get there and <br></font> <font color=822222>>it does not fall out when you both sit on then I think you could pretty<br></font> <font color=822222>>much say it is bomber! <br></font> <br> Yep, this is why the top anchors and belay bolts are doubled up - they don't get fallen on so haven't passed, shall we call it, the Macca test<br> <br> <font color=822222>><br></font> <font color=822222>>Oh and as for the bad bolt photos referred to, half of them look like<br></font> <font color=822222>>they would be fine to rap off - I'll <br></font> <font color=822222>>send you some shots of some 'real' bad bolts sometime.<br></font> <br> Cool, people can print the photos and use them to decide if a random bolt they come across is good to rap off. Would save yards of time instead of all this backing it up, one at a time, slow and steady waste of space that climbers have been using up until now. <br> <br> <font color=822222>><br></font> <font color=822222>>God I can't believe how much crap has been said already to end up with<br></font> <font color=822222>>this reaction from me and I'm <br></font> <font color=822222>>sorry if I have offended anyone . . .<br></font> <br> Not offended, just amused. I feel kinda sorry for the guy who asked the question tho... </font> </td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#FFF0E1"> <td valign="top" nowrap> <font FACE="Arial" Size="2"> <table width="100%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tr> <td> <img border="0" src="WIZARD.gif" width="32" height="32" vspace="2"><br> </td> <td align="right" valign="top"> </td> </tr> <tr> <td> <font FACE="Arial" Size="2"> <a href="Forum.asp?ForumID=1&Action=Profile&UserName=Macciza" title="View User's Profile">Macciza</a> </font> </td> <td align="right" valign="top"> </td> </tr> </table> </font> <font FACE="Arial" Size="1"> 10/09/2007<br>8:43:22 PM<br> </font> <table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0"> <tr> <td nowrap> <form name="form" action="Forum.asp" method="post"> <input type="hidden" name="ForumID" value="1"> <input type="hidden" name="MessageID" value="51637"> <input type="hidden" name="PagePos" value=""> <input type="hidden" name="Sort" value=""> <input type="submit" name="Action" value="View" STYLE="FONT-FAMILY: Arial,Helvetica; FONT-SIZE: 8pt"> <input type="submit" name="Action" value="Reply" STYLE="FONT-FAMILY: Arial,Helvetica; FONT-SIZE: 8pt"> </form> </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td valign="top"> <font FACE="Arial" Size="2"> On 10/09/2007 andesite wrote:<br> <br> <font color=822222>> . . if you lower some one at a steady rate the force is a constant BW. <br></font> <br> What so if you just let them freefall they still load the system - I don't think so . . .<br> <br> <br> <br> </font> </td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#EEE0E1"> <td valign="top" nowrap> <font FACE="Arial" Size="2"> <table width="100%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tr> <td> <img border="0" src="topop4.gif" width="32" height="32" vspace="2"><br> </td> <td align="right" valign="top"> </td> </tr> <tr> <td> <font FACE="Arial" Size="2"> <a href="Forum.asp?ForumID=1&Action=Profile&UserName=mousey" title="View User's Profile">mousey</a> </font> </td> <td align="right" valign="top"> </td> </tr> </table> </font> <font FACE="Arial" Size="1"> 10/09/2007<br>9:22:15 PM<br> </font> <table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0"> <tr> <td nowrap> <form name="form" action="Forum.asp" method="post"> <input type="hidden" name="ForumID" value="1"> <input type="hidden" name="MessageID" value="51640"> <input type="hidden" name="PagePos" value=""> <input type="hidden" name="Sort" value=""> <input type="submit" name="Action" value="View" STYLE="FONT-FAMILY: Arial,Helvetica; FONT-SIZE: 8pt"> <input type="submit" name="Action" value="Reply" STYLE="FONT-FAMILY: Arial,Helvetica; FONT-SIZE: 8pt"> </form> </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td valign="top"> <font FACE="Arial" Size="2"> macca- despite you being comfortable with dodgy shit on a personal level, i thought you more than almost anyone would understand that many of the old carrots ARE timebombs and occasionally they DO fail... <br> will they hold when someone raps on them? probably. should they be replaced with shiny rings? probably not. but should you be preaching that they are bomber? no way.<br> <br> simply because of the way you are, i understand that you will never endorse a 'comfort' factor in climbing, but lets be honest- if everyone did it your way, lots of people would probably die. </font> </td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#FFF0E1"> <td valign="top" nowrap> <font FACE="Arial" Size="2"> <table width="100%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tr> <td> <img border="0" src="CALVIN.gif" width="32" height="32" vspace="2"><br> </td> <td align="right" valign="top"> </td> </tr> <tr> <td> <font FACE="Arial" Size="2"> <a href="Forum.asp?ForumID=1&Action=Profile&UserName=skink" title="View User's Profile">skink</a> </font> </td> <td align="right" valign="top"> </td> </tr> </table> </font> <font FACE="Arial" Size="1"> 10/09/2007<br>9:31:33 PM<br> </font> <table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0"> <tr> <td nowrap> <form name="form" action="Forum.asp" method="post"> <input type="hidden" name="ForumID" value="1"> <input type="hidden" name="MessageID" value="51641"> <input type="hidden" name="PagePos" value=""> <input type="hidden" name="Sort" value=""> <input type="submit" name="Action" value="View" STYLE="FONT-FAMILY: Arial,Helvetica; FONT-SIZE: 8pt"> <input type="submit" name="Action" value="Reply" STYLE="FONT-FAMILY: Arial,Helvetica; FONT-SIZE: 8pt"> </form> </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td valign="top"> <font FACE="Arial" Size="2"> On 10/09/2007 Macciza wrote:<br> <font color=822222>>On 10/09/2007 andesite wrote:<br></font> <font color=822222>><br></font> <font color=822222>>> . . if you lower some one at a steady rate the force is a constant<br></font> <font color=822222>>BW. <br></font> <font color=822222>><br></font> <font color=822222>>What so if you just let them freefall they still load the system - I don't<br></font> <font color=822222>>think so . . .<br></font> <font color=822222>><br></font> <br> steady rate = no acceleration = no change in their apparent weight = force on anchor is BW<br> <br> freefall = acceleration at g = apparent weight goes to zero <br> <br> Read all about it:<br> <br> <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apparent_weight">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apparent_weight</A><br> </font> </td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#EEE0E1"> <td valign="top" nowrap> <font FACE="Arial" Size="2"> <table width="100%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tr> </tr> <tr> <td> <font FACE="Arial" Size="2"> <a href="Forum.asp?ForumID=1&Action=Profile&UserName=kieranl" title="View User's Profile">kieranl</a> </font> </td> <td align="right" valign="top"> </td> </tr> </table> </font> <font FACE="Arial" Size="1"> 10/09/2007<br>10:47:43 PM<br> </font> <table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0"> <tr> <td nowrap> <form name="form" action="Forum.asp" method="post"> <input type="hidden" name="ForumID" value="1"> <input type="hidden" name="MessageID" value="51643"> <input type="hidden" name="PagePos" value=""> <input type="hidden" name="Sort" value=""> <input type="submit" name="Action" value="View" STYLE="FONT-FAMILY: Arial,Helvetica; FONT-SIZE: 8pt"> <input type="submit" name="Action" value="Reply" STYLE="FONT-FAMILY: Arial,Helvetica; FONT-SIZE: 8pt"> </form> </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td valign="top"> <font FACE="Arial" Size="2"> On 10/09/2007 wyt91t wrote:<br> <font color=822222>>i would have found a ring then lowered off thus leaving nothing behind<br></font> Must be an economist, defining the starting parameters to suit the desired solution. </font> </td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#FFF0E1"> <td valign="top" nowrap> <font FACE="Arial" Size="2"> <table width="100%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tr> <td> <img border="0" src="totick4.gif" width="32" height="32" vspace="2"><br> </td> <td align="right" valign="top"> </td> </tr> <tr> <td> <font FACE="Arial" Size="2"> <a href="Forum.asp?ForumID=1&Action=Profile&UserName=dave h." title="View User's Profile">dave h.</a> </font> </td> <td align="right" valign="top"> </td> </tr> </table> </font> <font FACE="Arial" Size="1"> 10/09/2007<br>11:09:53 PM<br> </font> <table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0"> <tr> <td nowrap> <form name="form" action="Forum.asp" method="post"> <input type="hidden" name="ForumID" value="1"> <input type="hidden" name="MessageID" value="51645"> <input type="hidden" name="PagePos" value=""> <input type="hidden" name="Sort" value=""> <input type="submit" name="Action" value="View" STYLE="FONT-FAMILY: Arial,Helvetica; FONT-SIZE: 8pt"> <input type="submit" name="Action" value="Reply" STYLE="FONT-FAMILY: Arial,Helvetica; FONT-SIZE: 8pt"> </form> </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td valign="top"> <font FACE="Arial" Size="2"> On 10/09/2007 Macciza wrote:<br> <br> <font color=822222>>Does anyone else on this forum actually know how to sit on a drawed carrot<br></font> <font color=822222>>and still put a wire on the <br></font> <font color=822222>>bolt take of the draw and bolt plate then rap? (Edi:t apart from Josh<br></font> <font color=822222>>and Kyle)<br></font> <br> Could you please describe how to do this Macca? </font> </td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#EEE0E1"> <td valign="top" nowrap> <font FACE="Arial" Size="2"> <table width="100%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tr> <td> <img border="0" src="WIZARD.gif" width="32" height="32" vspace="2"><br> </td> <td align="right" valign="top"> </td> </tr> <tr> <td> <font FACE="Arial" Size="2"> <a href="Forum.asp?ForumID=1&Action=Profile&UserName=Macciza" title="View User's Profile">Macciza</a> </font> </td> <td align="right" valign="top"> </td> </tr> </table> </font> <font FACE="Arial" Size="1"> 10/09/2007<br>11:14:37 PM<br> </font> <table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0"> <tr> <td nowrap> <form name="form" action="Forum.asp" method="post"> <input type="hidden" name="ForumID" value="1"> <input type="hidden" name="MessageID" value="51646"> <input type="hidden" name="PagePos" value=""> <input type="hidden" name="Sort" value=""> <input type="submit" name="Action" value="View" STYLE="FONT-FAMILY: Arial,Helvetica; FONT-SIZE: 8pt"> <input type="submit" name="Action" value="Reply" STYLE="FONT-FAMILY: Arial,Helvetica; FONT-SIZE: 8pt"> </form> </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td valign="top"> <font FACE="Arial" Size="2"> ><font color=822222>On 10/09/2007 andesite wrote:<br></font> <font color=822222>><br></font> <font color=822222>>Read all about it:<br></font> <font color=822222>><br></font> Maybe you should . . . </font> </td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#FFF0E1"> <td valign="top" nowrap> <font FACE="Arial" Size="2"> <table width="100%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tr> <td> <img border="0" src="WIZARD.gif" width="32" height="32" vspace="2"><br> </td> <td align="right" valign="top"> </td> </tr> <tr> <td> <font FACE="Arial" Size="2"> <a href="Forum.asp?ForumID=1&Action=Profile&UserName=Macciza" title="View User's Profile">Macciza</a> </font> </td> <td align="right" valign="top"> </td> </tr> </table> </font> <font FACE="Arial" Size="1"> 10/09/2007<br>11:18:20 PM<br> </font> <table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0"> <tr> <td nowrap> <form name="form" action="Forum.asp" method="post"> <input type="hidden" name="ForumID" value="1"> <input type="hidden" name="MessageID" value="51647"> <input type="hidden" name="PagePos" value=""> <input type="hidden" name="Sort" value=""> <input type="submit" name="Action" value="View" STYLE="FONT-FAMILY: Arial,Helvetica; FONT-SIZE: 8pt"> <input type="submit" name="Action" value="Reply" STYLE="FONT-FAMILY: Arial,Helvetica; FONT-SIZE: 8pt"> </form> </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td valign="top"> <font FACE="Arial" Size="2"> Yeah, I will but I am interested to see if this knowledge has disappeared from the climbing community <br> first ( or at least see if the youngun's can work it out)<br> <br> </font> </td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#EEE0E1"> <td valign="top" nowrap> <font FACE="Arial" Size="2"> <table width="100%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tr> <td> <img border="0" src="sptown7.gif" width="32" height="32" vspace="2"><br> </td> <td align="right" valign="top"> </td> </tr> <tr> <td> <font FACE="Arial" Size="2"> <a href="Forum.asp?ForumID=1&Action=Profile&UserName=cruze" title="View User's Profile">cruze</a> </font> </td> <td align="right" valign="top"> </td> </tr> </table> </font> <font FACE="Arial" Size="1"> 11/09/2007<br>8:42:29 AM<br> </font> <table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0"> <tr> <td nowrap> <form name="form" action="Forum.asp" method="post"> <input type="hidden" name="ForumID" value="1"> <input type="hidden" name="MessageID" value="51650"> <input type="hidden" name="PagePos" value=""> <input type="hidden" name="Sort" value=""> <input type="submit" name="Action" value="View" STYLE="FONT-FAMILY: Arial,Helvetica; FONT-SIZE: 8pt"> <input type="submit" name="Action" value="Reply" STYLE="FONT-FAMILY: Arial,Helvetica; FONT-SIZE: 8pt"> </form> </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td valign="top"> <font FACE="Arial" Size="2"> I am not a young gun, but just thinking about it:<br> Can you thread a smallish wire through the keyhole of the bolt plate (small biner holding your weight) clipping end first. Just before the 'stopper end' of the wire goes through the keyhole you loop it over the head of the carrot. Then you rotate the wire around the carrot with force (or shift your weight off the hanger temporarily) to get it past the hanger. </font> </td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#FFF0E1"> <td valign="top" nowrap> <font FACE="Arial" Size="2"> <table width="100%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tr> <td> <img border="0" src="INDIAN.gif" width="32" height="32" vspace="2"><br> </td> <td align="right" valign="top"> </td> </tr> <tr> <td> <font FACE="Arial" Size="2"> <a href="Forum.asp?ForumID=1&Action=Profile&UserName=Chuck Norris" title="View User's Profile">Chuck Norris</a> </font> </td> <td align="right" valign="top"> </td> </tr> </table> </font> <font FACE="Arial" Size="1"> 11/09/2007<br>8:58:18 AM<br> </font> <table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0"> <tr> <td nowrap> <form name="form" action="Forum.asp" method="post"> <input type="hidden" name="ForumID" value="1"> <input type="hidden" name="MessageID" value="51651"> <input type="hidden" name="PagePos" value=""> <input type="hidden" name="Sort" value=""> <input type="submit" name="Action" value="View" STYLE="FONT-FAMILY: Arial,Helvetica; FONT-SIZE: 8pt"> <input type="submit" name="Action" value="Reply" STYLE="FONT-FAMILY: Arial,Helvetica; FONT-SIZE: 8pt"> </form> </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td valign="top"> <font FACE="Arial" Size="2"> On 11/09/2007 cruze wrote:<br> <font color=822222>>I am not a young gun, but just thinking about it:<br></font> <font color=822222>>Can you thread a smallish wire through the keyhole of the bolt plate (small<br></font> <font color=822222>>biner holding your weight) clipping end first. Just before the 'stopper<br></font> <font color=822222>>end' of the wire goes through the keyhole you loop it over the head of<br></font> <font color=822222>>the carrot. Then you rotate the wire around the carrot with force (or shift<br></font> <font color=822222>>your weight off the hanger temporarily) to get it past the hanger.<br></font> <br> no you clip the wire loop through the top biner and then put the wire behind the plate, transfer weight <br> and wrestle a bit to unclip everything.<br> <br> </font> </td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#EEE0E1"> <td valign="top" nowrap> <font FACE="Arial" Size="2"> <table width="100%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tr> <td> <img border="0" src="sptown7.gif" width="32" height="32" vspace="2"><br> </td> <td align="right" valign="top"> </td> </tr> <tr> <td> <font FACE="Arial" Size="2"> <a href="Forum.asp?ForumID=1&Action=Profile&UserName=cruze" title="View User's Profile">cruze</a> </font> </td> <td align="right" valign="top"> </td> </tr> </table> </font> <font FACE="Arial" Size="1"> 11/09/2007<br>9:03:07 AM<br> </font> <table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0"> <tr> <td nowrap> <form name="form" action="Forum.asp" method="post"> <input type="hidden" name="ForumID" value="1"> <input type="hidden" name="MessageID" value="51652"> <input type="hidden" name="PagePos" value=""> <input type="hidden" name="Sort" value=""> <input type="submit" name="Action" value="View" STYLE="FONT-FAMILY: Arial,Helvetica; FONT-SIZE: 8pt"> <input type="submit" name="Action" value="Reply" STYLE="FONT-FAMILY: Arial,Helvetica; FONT-SIZE: 8pt"> </form> </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td valign="top"> <font FACE="Arial" Size="2"> Actually I was going to change my idea to say that the only part that needed threading (from the back of the bolt plate) was the 'stopper end' of the wire peeled back.<br> <br> So what you are suggesting is that you open the gate of the top biner to clip the wire? Sounds pretty much like my idea (re the wrestling) except you only have one biner in use...<br> <br> Like most things with gear, it wont make sense to me until I actually try it on a carrot. And given my comments above on this thread that will be the only time I will bother trying it. </font> </td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#FFF0E1"> <td valign="top" nowrap> <font FACE="Arial" Size="2"> <table width="100%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tr> <td> <img border="0" src="INDIAN.gif" width="32" height="32" vspace="2"><br> </td> <td align="right" valign="top"> </td> </tr> <tr> <td> <font FACE="Arial" Size="2"> <a href="Forum.asp?ForumID=1&Action=Profile&UserName=Chuck Norris" title="View User's Profile">Chuck Norris</a> </font> </td> <td align="right" valign="top"> </td> </tr> </table> </font> <font FACE="Arial" Size="1"> 11/09/2007<br>9:30:49 AM<br> </font> <table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0"> <tr> <td nowrap> <form name="form" action="Forum.asp" method="post"> <input type="hidden" name="ForumID" value="1"> <input type="hidden" name="MessageID" value="51653"> <input type="hidden" name="PagePos" value=""> <input type="hidden" name="Sort" value=""> <input type="submit" name="Action" value="View" STYLE="FONT-FAMILY: Arial,Helvetica; FONT-SIZE: 8pt"> <input type="submit" name="Action" value="Reply" STYLE="FONT-FAMILY: Arial,Helvetica; FONT-SIZE: 8pt"> </form> </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td valign="top"> <font FACE="Arial" Size="2"> to be clear - i meant the stopper end loop (with stopper pulled back) clipped through the top biner. Then <br> put this loop behind the bolt plate. Then clip the normal clipping part of the wire to the rope and transfer <br> weight onto this. The draw is now completely unloaded and the wrestling bit is that the original <br> (unweighted) draw is is pinned between the rock and one side of the wire that is now weight bearing. <br> <br> In general its not to hard to unclip but if the bolthead is close to the rock and it is physically impossible to <br> release any weight off the wire then it can be a bit of a frig - but usually OK.<br> <br> can't see why macca couldn't just post this in the first place. </font> </td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#EEE0E1"> <td valign="top" nowrap> <font FACE="Arial" Size="2"> <table width="100%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tr> </tr> <tr> <td> <font FACE="Arial" Size="2"> <a href="Forum.asp?ForumID=1&Action=Profile&UserName=widewetandslippery" title="View User's Profile">widewetandslippery</a> </font> </td> <td align="right" valign="top"> </td> </tr> </table> </font> <font FACE="Arial" Size="1"> 11/09/2007<br>9:42:15 AM<br> </font> <table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0"> <tr> <td nowrap> <form name="form" action="Forum.asp" method="post"> <input type="hidden" name="ForumID" value="1"> <input type="hidden" name="MessageID" value="51657"> <input type="hidden" name="PagePos" value=""> <input type="hidden" name="Sort" value=""> <input type="submit" name="Action" value="View" STYLE="FONT-FAMILY: Arial,Helvetica; FONT-SIZE: 8pt"> <input type="submit" name="Action" value="Reply" STYLE="FONT-FAMILY: Arial,Helvetica; FONT-SIZE: 8pt"> </form> </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td valign="top"> <font FACE="Arial" Size="2"> The way I do it. Pull head down on wire. Clip into biner rope is going through. slip wire under rope. clip wire out of biner. Wire is now around biner/draw. Slide up draw and over back of bolt plate. Clip rope/biner onto normal end of wire and trnsfer wieght.Dismantle draw/bolt plate combo. Lower/rap. Flick. </font> </td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#FFF0E1"> <td valign="top" nowrap> <font FACE="Arial" Size="2"> <table width="100%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tr> <td> <img border="0" src="COWBOY2.gif" width="32" height="32" vspace="2"><br> </td> <td align="right" valign="top"> </td> </tr> <tr> <td> <font FACE="Arial" Size="2"> <a href="Forum.asp?ForumID=1&Action=Profile&UserName=oweng" title="View User's Profile">oweng</a> </font> </td> <td align="right" valign="top"> </td> </tr> </table> </font> <font FACE="Arial" Size="1"> 11/09/2007<br>10:09:40 AM<br> </font> <table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0"> <tr> <td nowrap> <form name="form" action="Forum.asp" method="post"> <input type="hidden" name="ForumID" value="1"> <input type="hidden" name="MessageID" value="51658"> <input type="hidden" name="PagePos" value=""> <input type="hidden" name="Sort" value=""> <input type="submit" name="Action" value="View" STYLE="FONT-FAMILY: Arial,Helvetica; FONT-SIZE: 8pt"> <input type="submit" name="Action" value="Reply" STYLE="FONT-FAMILY: Arial,Helvetica; FONT-SIZE: 8pt"> </form> </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td valign="top"> <font FACE="Arial" Size="2"> I never seem to have bolt plates, or bolt plates that fit lately. So I generally have already clipped the carrot with a wire to start with!<br> <br> </font> </td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#EEE0E1"> <td valign="top" nowrap> <font FACE="Arial" Size="2"> <table width="100%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tr> <td> <img border="0" src="CHEKOV.gif" width="32" height="32" vspace="2"><br> </td> <td align="right" valign="top"> </td> </tr> <tr> <td> <font FACE="Arial" Size="2"> <a href="Forum.asp?ForumID=1&Action=Profile&UserName=The good Dr" title="View User's Profile">The good Dr</a> </font> </td> <td align="right" valign="top"> </td> </tr> </table> </font> <font FACE="Arial" Size="1"> 11/09/2007<br>3:56:40 PM<br> </font> <table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0"> <tr> <td nowrap> <form name="form" action="Forum.asp" method="post"> <input type="hidden" name="ForumID" value="1"> <input type="hidden" name="MessageID" value="51665"> <input type="hidden" name="PagePos" value=""> <input type="hidden" name="Sort" value=""> <input type="submit" name="Action" value="View" STYLE="FONT-FAMILY: Arial,Helvetica; FONT-SIZE: 8pt"> <input type="submit" name="Action" value="Reply" STYLE="FONT-FAMILY: Arial,Helvetica; FONT-SIZE: 8pt"> </form> </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td valign="top"> <font FACE="Arial" Size="2"> Why bother with frigging around with crappy carrots when you can just rap off a skyhook anyway. Means you don't have to find any bolts! </font> </td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#FFF0E1"> <td valign="top" nowrap> <font FACE="Arial" Size="2"> <table width="100%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tr> <td> <img border="0" src="FLY.gif" width="32" height="32" vspace="2"><br> </td> <td align="right" valign="top"> </td> </tr> <tr> <td> <font FACE="Arial" Size="2"> <a href="Forum.asp?ForumID=1&Action=Profile&UserName=nmonteith" title="View User's Profile">nmonteith</a> </font> </td> <td align="right" valign="top"> </td> </tr> </table> </font> <font FACE="Arial" Size="1"> 11/09/2007<br>4:29:23 PM<br> </font> <table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0"> <tr> <td nowrap> <form name="form" action="Forum.asp" method="post"> <input type="hidden" name="ForumID" value="1"> <input type="hidden" name="MessageID" value="51666"> <input type="hidden" name="PagePos" value=""> <input type="hidden" name="Sort" value=""> <input type="submit" name="Action" value="View" STYLE="FONT-FAMILY: Arial,Helvetica; FONT-SIZE: 8pt"> <input type="submit" name="Action" value="Reply" STYLE="FONT-FAMILY: Arial,Helvetica; FONT-SIZE: 8pt"> </form> </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td valign="top"> <font FACE="Arial" Size="2"> pfffttt! Skyhook! Just solo back down. </font> </td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#EEE0E1"> <td valign="top" nowrap> <font FACE="Arial" Size="2"> <table width="100%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tr> <td> <img border="0" src="Food6.gif" width="32" height="32" vspace="2"><br> </td> <td align="right" valign="top"> </td> </tr> <tr> <td> <font FACE="Arial" Size="2"> <a href="Forum.asp?ForumID=1&Action=Profile&UserName=wallwombat" title="View User's Profile">wallwombat</a> </font> </td> <td align="right" valign="top"> </td> </tr> </table> </font> <font FACE="Arial" Size="1"> 11/09/2007<br>4:43:19 PM<br> </font> <table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0"> <tr> <td nowrap> <form name="form" action="Forum.asp" method="post"> <input type="hidden" name="ForumID" value="1"> <input type="hidden" name="MessageID" value="51668"> <input type="hidden" name="PagePos" value=""> <input type="hidden" name="Sort" value=""> <input type="submit" name="Action" value="View" STYLE="FONT-FAMILY: Arial,Helvetica; FONT-SIZE: 8pt"> <input type="submit" name="Action" value="Reply" STYLE="FONT-FAMILY: Arial,Helvetica; FONT-SIZE: 8pt"> </form> </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td valign="top"> <font FACE="Arial" Size="2"> Skyhooks aren't cheap.<br> <br> A couple of months ago I rapped of a piece of sandstone I wedged in a crack. I backed it up with gear and my partner went first and when it didn't disintergrate, I took away the pieces and very tentatively abseiled of it. At the time I was a bit pissed off that I had to leave a sling . </font> </td> </tr> </table> <br> <form name="form" action="Forum.asp" method="post"> <table width="100%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tr> <td valign="top" nowrap> <font FACE="Arial" Size="2"> <input TYPE="SUBMIT" NAME="Page" VALUE=" |< "><input TYPE="SUBMIT" NAME="Page" VALUE=" << "><input TYPE="SUBMIT" NAME="Page" VALUE=" >> "><input TYPE="SUBMIT" NAME="Page" VALUE=" >| ">  Page 3 of 4. </font> </td> <td align="right"> <font FACE="Arial" Size="1"> Messages <a href=Forum.asp?Action=DisplayTopic&ForumID=1&MessageID=51554&PagePos=&Sort=&Replies=78&MsgPagePos=0>1 to 20</a> | <a href=Forum.asp?Action=DisplayTopic&ForumID=1&MessageID=51554&PagePos=&Sort=&Replies=78&MsgPagePos=20>21 to 40</a> | 41 to 60 | <a href=Forum.asp?Action=DisplayTopic&ForumID=1&MessageID=51554&PagePos=&Sort=&Replies=78&MsgPagePos=60>61 to 78</a> </font> </td> </tr> </table> <input type="hidden" name="MsgPagePos" value="40"> <input type="hidden" name="Action" value="DisplayTopic"> <input type="hidden" name="ForumID" value="1"> <input type="hidden" name="MessageID" value="51554"> <input type="hidden" name="PagePos" value=""> <input type="hidden" name="Sort" value=""> <input type="hidden" name="Replies" value="78"> </form> <table width="100%"> <tr> <td> <form name="form" action="Forum.asp" method="post"> <input type="submit" name="Action" value="View Thread" STYLE="FONT-FAMILY: Arial,Helvetica; FONT-SIZE: 9pt"> <input type="submit" name="Action" value="Print" STYLE="FONT-FAMILY: Arial,Helvetica; FONT-SIZE: 9pt"> <input type="submit" name="Action" value="Return" STYLE="FONT-FAMILY: Arial,Helvetica; FONT-SIZE: 9pt"> <input type="hidden" name="ForumID" value="1"> <input type="hidden" name="MessageID" value="51554"> <input type="hidden" name="PagePos" value=""> <input type="hidden" name="Sort" value=""> </form> </td> <td align="right"> <font FACE="Arial" Size="2"> There are 78 messages in this topic. </font> </td> </tr> </table> 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