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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

 Page 6 of 8. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 100 | 101 to 120 | 121 to 140 | 141 to 145
Author
Should you put climbs up for others?

muki
23/04/2007
7:59:05 PM
On 23/04/2007 tnd wrote:
>Me too. I put lots of ring bolts in mine because I like to feel safe.

Other than feeling safe, it doesent change the climbing, the movement is still pure (not aid) and the
enjoyment is still there, so I guess I will be repeating your routes as well tnd.

Macciza
23/04/2007
9:35:42 PM
On 23/04/2007 bomber pro wrote:
>On 23/04/2007 tnd wrote:
>>Me too. I put lots of ring bolts in mine because I like to feel safe.
>
Beware of false security from lots of rings = safety. It doesn't always work like that.

>Other than feeling safe, it doesent change the climbing, the movement
>is still pure (not aid) and the
>enjoyment is still there, so I guess I will be repeating your routes as
>well tnd.

Actually that feeling of safety can often be the most dangerous thing. And it does change the climbing,
skip some rings on an overbolted climb and you should see what I mean. Excessive ringclipping can
really interrupt the flow of your climbing. Movement is pure when you are simply climbing, rather than
when you are protecting and rings are the ultimate aid.
Oh well I guess people have different tastes of enjoyment and excitment,
And I guess I will get around to doing some of Nall's routes too soon so I guess I will see what he
means by 'lots' of rings

vwills
23/04/2007
10:18:06 PM
>Other than feeling safe, it doesent change the climbing, the movement
>is still pure (not aid) and the
>enjoyment is still there.

I have to disagree. Overbolting can severely impair the flow of the climb. You could argue you dont have to clip every bolt, but its mere presence is an intrusion.

On the issue of 'feeling safe"- working a crux with a bolt below your feet is not the same as working a crux where the bolt is at your waist. You can be quite safe with a bolt below your feet if the fall is clean, but your perception of safety will be quite different. The headspace, commitment and memorability are altered by the bolt placement.
Its 'nice' to have to commit and climb through a crux rather than slump on a draw with the pathetic sigh "just take"

Macciza
23/04/2007
10:31:48 PM
On 23/04/2007 vwills wrote:
A whole lot of excellent stuff
I agree completely
ghost
23/04/2007
10:34:05 PM
Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesssssssssssss

Cooooooooooommmmmmmpleeeeeeeeeeeteeeeeeeeeeeeely.....

muki
23/04/2007
10:52:33 PM
I was'nt talking about an over bolted blueys route, but about the fact that its still climbing not thrash and
dangle aid shit, I think you are just pissing in each others pockets, thats nice too if your mates or
somthing IDGAF.
ghost
23/04/2007
10:53:25 PM
IIIIIIMMMMMMM TTTAAAAALLLLKKKKIIIINNNGGGG TTOOOOOOOO MMMMOOOOUUUUSSSSEEEYYYYYYY !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Take!
23/07/2007
9:13:20 PM
This isn't a troll or wind-up but, hypothetically... If you wanted to do a certain climb but weren't happy with the run-out section left by the first acentionist then why not just pre-place a (very very) long sling from the next pro above (if possible) to protect the section of climb that is a problem for you?

Now before you answer, have you ever run up a climb and placed an extended draw on a clip for a short climber who can't clip the, much needed, bolt unless they do a ridiculous move that is harder than the actual grade of the climb?
This may seem trivial but climbing with a 5' friend (at up to grade 23) has shown otherwise.
Mr Milk
23/07/2007
9:56:50 PM
On 23/07/2007 Take! wrote:
>
>Now before you answer, have you ever run up a climb and placed an extended
>draw on a clip for a short climber who can't clip the, much needed, bolt
>unless they do a ridiculous move that is harder than the actual grade of
>the climb?

this comment does not make sense. how could anyone be doing a "ridiculous move that is harder than the actual grade of the climb". you just do the moves and clip the bolts and you climb your climb. easy! its only sketched-out people that clip bolts too early who encounter problems.

muki
23/07/2007
10:25:26 PM
Sure this is OK, do what you like, so long as you don't interfere with the climb in any way that would
permanently affect it.
your safety is up to you, top rope if it's dodgy, pre equip it from rapell if you are not strong enough to
place gear on lead, pink point has gone by the wayside as a term for this style of leading, red pointing
is the loose term these days, that and pre-equiping, but in the long run it's your call, there are no rule
books, just a few things that most climbers would consider unethical, ie: chiping holds, placing extra
bolts on already existing climbs (with exeption for those that are replacing old with new and have the
permision of the first ascentionist) bolting a naturaly protectable climb, ie: nuts-cams-big bros etc, not
pitons! or bongs! these should be replaced with new if possible, and if not then replaced with bolts,
they are in essence the same thing as a bolt, a piece of steel used to protect the lead climber.

As to the problem with shorter climbers having difficulty cliping the gear or even being able to put the
runner on in the first place, I have found that more and more bolts are going in that are placed to be in
a position that allows the leader to clip the rope ONLY if the draw is already hanging there!
Just an observation, not cool if you are into onsighting like me, but I'm six foot, so I can usually pull it
out of the bag somehow, but it still makes me curse the bolters!
Mr Milk
23/07/2007
10:35:31 PM
if you are into onsightinng bomber pro then just bust out the moves and clip higher. if you blow it you have the bonus of taking a fall. hooray!


muki
24/07/2007
12:44:40 AM
Yeah, thats basicly what I said, milk !, falls are no biggy, but if you have no stance to clip off, engaged in
a cruxy sequence of holds (usualy just after you find the bolts)... then you have to run it out till the next
bolt and hope that it provides the option of doing the moves and still being able to clip!
ever do "blue eyed and blond"? it's been fixed now, but you used to have to do the crux, shake out, then
down climb to clip the bolt at your feet, or fall of trying to clip it halfway through the crux, so most people
who knew this would pre-equip it with a rather long draw on the rap in!(no onsight) now it can be onsighted
MR. REDZONE
24/07/2007
2:34:22 AM
I wont be happy until those pathetic piddington offerings such as flake crack and eternity are bolt laddered.

wallwombat
24/07/2007
9:57:13 AM
On 24/07/2007 MR. REDZONE wrote:
>I wont be happy until those pathetic piddington offerings such as flake
>crack and eternity are bolt laddered.

Well, don't let fear stand in your way, Dod. You have a drill. Go for it.

gordoste
24/07/2007
10:55:46 AM
On 23/07/2007 bomber pro wrote:
>As to the problem with shorter climbers having difficulty cliping the
>gear or even being able to put the
>runner on in the first place, I have found that more and more bolts are
>going in that are placed to be in
>a position that allows the leader to clip the rope ONLY if the draw is
>already hanging there!
>Just an observation, not cool if you are into onsighting like me, but
>I'm six foot, so I can usually pull it
>out of the bag somehow, but it still makes me curse the bolters!

Here in NE Victoria many of the bolts were hand-drilled by tall people. Hand-drilling means you tend to place things as high as possible to avoid drilling extra bolts. So it can mean some very reachy clipping of carrots from tenuous stances (most of the climbing is on granite which tends to be slabby or on thin edges). There are also a few cases where the distance from 1st to 2nd bolt is further than ground to 1st bolt, which is worrying. Of course, it goes without saying that when I bolt my first climb the bolts will be perfectly positioned ;) Hindsight is a wonderful thing! I have to say that as a general rule, the harder the climbs are, the better-placed the bolts tend to be though!

rodw
24/07/2007
10:59:41 AM
>Well, don't let fear stand in your way, Dod. You have a drill. Go for
>it.

It's easier to whinge and steal routes eh Mr Zone :P

rodw
24/07/2007
11:08:19 AM
>to say that as a general rule, the harder the climbs are, the better-placed
>the bolts tend to be though!

As a general rule thats BS , depends on who's bolting it...since most ppl bolting new routes climb harder grades (except me), its normally an ego/cost saving exercise to be minimalist in the placement of the bolts. It okay for someone to bolt something run out and scary, even death routes are fine....but only if they also bolt things the same way at or above their limit...otherwise its all ego.

Mistakes happen of course, i.e. the climb dosnt climb the way ya thought and some bolts end up being hard to clip, but intentionally doing it at something many grades below ya limit for the sake of ego, is just dumb.
Nottobetaken
24/07/2007
11:09:32 AM
Depends what your person ethics are I guess, but then if the route feels a tad too dangerous, then why not try another one? There’s a classic Barber route down south here that is a bit of an exciting lead. Vertical/slabby wall on polished rock with micro wire protection behind a questionable block and nothing above that until you are well after the crux. Barber did it with a piton, but that has long since fallen out. Regularly gets TR’d nowadays, but has seen the odd lead whereby the leader has strung a TR off the top complete with knotted loops and draws hung at various intervals. Hardly climbing the same route then, are you? As for the case of badly placed fixed gear - well that's the route equipper's error (stupidity).

gordoste
24/07/2007
1:56:48 PM
On 24/07/2007 rodw wrote:
>As a general rule thats BS , depends on who's bolting it...since most
>ppl bolting new routes climb harder grades (except me), its normally an
>ego/cost saving exercise to be minimalist in the placement of the bolts.

I was just talking about the local crags, not as a general rule.

Paulie
24/07/2007
2:15:58 PM
On 24/07/2007 gordoste wrote:
>Of course, it goes without saying that when I bolt my first climb the bolts
>will be perfectly positioned ;)

That's what I thought too Gordo... :)

IMO you should put the route up in whatever style suits not just your own style and tastes, but also what suits the area. Ie., make it safe at Buffalo but make it safer at Thomsons Point.

As for putting routes up for the masses, why not? I've done so on occasion and they're quite (relatively anyway) popular routes (ie., they're very safe).

Paulie

 Page 6 of 8. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 100 | 101 to 120 | 121 to 140 | 141 to 145
There are 145 messages in this topic.

 

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