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Mount Buffalo Guidebook

25-Jun-2004
11:47:01 AM

In the other thread On 25/06/2004 A5iswhereitsat wrote:
>I am happy to help out where I can, but my 'extensive notes' are probably
>not what is required.

Thanks A5 - I realise these sort of notes won't be the same scope as whats needed for a guide but hopefully they could be 'distilled' into something pretty useful. First let me say I am not fully in the know so the editors may have different ideas. But my thinking is that it would be extremely helpful for an aid section to provide information such as:
a) topo for each route
b) required gear for each route
c) length and grade of every pitch (and quality / star rating?) (and pitch-specific gear requirements?)
d) route description ('guidebook standard' ie enough info to follow it, without being excessive)
e) access description (which rap route etc)
f) typical time required?? (eg along the lines of the US I, II, III ... rating?)
- all from an AID perspective - which seems to get lost as routes go free.

I imagine you would have much of (b) and (c) available right now for the routes you have taken notes for, plus (d)-(f) could probably be extracted.

>I can proof-read stuff and make constructive comments if required?

Yes proofreading is important, *especially* by someone who has been there and knows the context (eg anyone can pick up the spelling errors - but not the bits that say Left instead of Right or whatever).


IdratherbeclimbingM9

25-Jun-2004
1:14:26 PM

On 25/06/2004 WM wrote:
>In the other thread On 25/06/2004 A5iswhereitsat wrote:
Clarification point: The other thread referred to is titled 'A Short Story' (started by Damien). I have cleaned up my portion of that site by deleting my post after copying it and the threads contents to here.

On 25/06/2004 WM wrote:
>Hey A5 - there's been requests for an aid section in the VCC Buffalo guide under >development - any chance of contributing some of your (apparently extensive!) notes >for inclusion? It as good a way as any to get some Bufffalo action during winter.....

I am happy to help out where I can, but my 'extensive notes' are probably not what is required.
This is because they are more along the lines of personal ramblings. Some of them have been fleshed out to a readable story, but most are just point form 'notes to self' re what worked / did not work etc on attempts I have made, so I can refine my act for future attempts.
What I know, I think I know very well; but in the scheme of things I still consider myself a keen beginner because in reality I have done bugger all on the North Wall (but spent a lot of time doing it!). A bit like using a magnifying glass to look at letters within a few words that make up / are part of the pages, of a 'guide' if you can follow the analogy. -> Probably not useful to others methinks.
Another thing to consider is that climbs (and technology) evolve. Fixed gear 'appears' or is removed etc. so detailed notes can become outdated ...
I don't know what you specifically have in mind, but I can proof-read stuff and make constructive comments if required?

Some people are gear freaks. Me, ... I am a sponge! ... for any info/technique etc that will make my life easier on a wall !! ... but I am happy to share knowledge.
(PS. I am probably a gear freak too).

>WM
>I'll shift this to the Buffalo guidebook thread

>my thinking is that it would be extremely helpful for an aid section to provide information such as:
>a) topo for each route
>b) required gear for each route
>c) length and grade of every pitch (and quality / star rating?) (and pitch-specific
>gear requirements?)
>d) route description ('guidebook standard' ie enough info to follow it,
>without being excessive)
>e) access description (which rap route etc)
>f) typical time required?? (eg along the lines of the US I, II, III ...
>rating?)

Some further comments;
Re a). Only warranted if the aid line differs from the free line.
Re b). Could be done on a 'global' basis rather than listed for every climb. Only exception would be anything unique required that 1st ascentionist may have used eg a 'cheatstick'.
By global I mean catagorised as wide; thin; hooks; heads etc rather than take x of this and y of that.
Re c). Seems excessive / subjective to me. Original climbs were done on 150 ft ropes. Many ascents are done on 60m ropes now and trend is towards longer thinner ropes. Pitches are often run together now ...
Star rating is perhaps best applied to the whole climb rather than individual pitches.
Re d). Present descriptions are probably adequate.
Re e) Good point !
Re f) The M grade would suffice to indicate time to a great extent. ie M6 takes more time than M2. Again its pretty subjective, ... I know I am slow compared to many others!

> - all from an AID perspective - which seems to get lost as routes go free.
It may be aid but we should still keep the adventure rather than 'prescribing it into submission' by excessive annotation in guidebooks?

25-Jun-2004
3:53:27 PM

A good detailed topo is pages 15 & 16 of the free Nose Supertopo: http://www.supertopo.com/topos/yosemite/thenose.pdf (warning: 573KB)

What do others think about this level of detail - is it prescribing it into submission?

Features applicable to a Buffalo aid section might be:
It gives BOTH aid and free grades, along with compulsory free sections.
re (b) - it shows what sort of gear list I mean - which I think agrees with A5's 'global' list.

re (c) - by giving individual pitch lengths, it allows the opportunities for joining pitches to be assessed by each party as they choose (eg depending on rope length / rack / preference). For example there are 10 linking options on the Nose (see http://www.supertopo.com/rockclimbing/route.html?r=ybelnose ). Also the ascent can be tailored to the respective strengths of the party (eg who leads what).

Interestingly a topo of this standard entirely eliminates the need for any route description.

I realise a topo of this quality is unlikely for most Buffalo aid routes (I for one wouldn't know where to start). But then again a special section on Ozy might justify this sort of effort - after all Ozy attracts climbers from around the country, and may be the sole/primary reason that some proportion of visitors will buy the guide.

I think A5 is right that there is a balance to be struck between giving sufficient info to 'guide', and being over prescriptive and taking the adventure out of it. However if people are having to ask around for more beta before setting off up routes (eg gfdonc's beta request for She, and I also would be beta hunting before setting off up most North Wall routes), then I'd say the existing level of detail isn't enough. Surely a guide needs to cater for a competent party to turn up, buy the guide, and get up it - without having to ask around for beta. People wanting more adventure could leave the guide at home....

I imagine the financial side will inevitably sway the content too - any feature which encourages sales (eg a great topo) helps justify production.

Anyway, I hope we are making progress in sorting out exactly what people want to see in the guide. Then 'all' we have to do is go out and get it.


IdratherbeclimbingM9

25-Jun-2004
7:18:09 PM

On 25/06/2004 WM wrote:
>What do others think about this level of detail - is it prescribing it
>into submission?
The Nose is a climb of greater length, history and world stature -> interest value, than Ozy at Buffalo. It warrants the detail the link you provided gives due to the interest and numbers involved. It also has a greater pool of information to draw upon to come up with the 'ultimate prescription'.
It is possible for us to replicate or even exceed its professionalism for the new Buffalo Guide, but it will be a mammoth labour of love to achieve....

You make some good points re pitch lengths vs opportunities for parties.

I suspect the Nth Wall already has many linkup possibilities that have not yet been done, ... these however, are the contents of guidebooks of the future!


Paulie

25-Jun-2004
9:06:52 PM

I think it's vitally important to keep Mt Bufflao an adventure experience. I feel that giving too much info away would likely make it less of an experience.

However, in the interest of safety and to lessen the likelihood of beknightment, for some of the big aid (and free routes) it would be very useful to give a description of "essential" pieces of gear for the most dangerous/hardest pitches. Most people going to Buffalo will probably take enough gear to protect most routes anyway.

Asking around for beta and other info on routes is also a great way of meeting new people and keeping the spirit of climbing alive.

In the end, I think Australia has the best guidebook writers out there. Trying to decipher these Scottish ones is an epic unto itself

There can be too much info and then there're Scottish guidebooks...I think a happy medium would be great!

Paulie

26-Jun-2004
10:44:11 PM

>The Nose is a climb of greater length, history and world stature -> interest
>value, than Ozy at Buffalo.

its just an example - cruise round their site and you'll find free topos for plenty of routes plus entire books of them for sale. and hey, Ozy is "the Nose of Australia"


IdratherbeclimbingM9

28-Jun-2004
7:36:56 AM

Fair enough.
Another contender; De Gauls nose, Frenchmans Cap perhaps?

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