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scary self detaching bolt plates


anthonyk

20-Apr-2006
5:37:25 PM

some ppl were out at dam cliffs last wkend and said they had a number of bolt plates detach themselves from the bolts while on lead, with the quickdraw still attached to them. one girl said she was at the top of the route & looked down to see two of them no longer on the bolts..

i don't remember anything unusual about the bolts at that place, they seem pretty standard, and the best explanation we could find was that the carabiners on the quickdraws were small (fancy lightweight black diamond ones) and may leave more of a gap for the bolt to slide over.

anyone have experience with this sort of thing happening? maybe something to keep an eye on. i also had one pull itself off without unclipping on hotel california with a normal quickdraw, maybe its just one of those things you've got to deal with using bolt plates.

(thought this might have been covered somewhere else before but couldn't find it)


shaggy

20-Apr-2006
5:48:32 PM

A few of the new biners, can fit between bolt plates and the bolts, even at the non wire part of the biner. Wire gate biners always fit through too.
My Engrisch be good today.


anthonyk

20-Apr-2006
5:49:23 PM

yeah these were straight gates not wires

Dalai

20-Apr-2006
6:08:44 PM

Were the climbers who had bolt plates come off new to using wiggly hangers? If so possibly they didn't place the narrow key hole section over the carrot head?

BoaredOfTheRings

20-Apr-2006
6:12:56 PM

On 20/04/2006 Dalai wrote:
>Were the climbers who had bolt plates come off new to using wiggly hangers?
>If so possibly they didn't place the narrow key hole section over the carrot
>head?

Have seen several euros do this in the past, can be quiet amusing, in retrospect, when the hanger at their feet pops off mid-crux.

wyt91t

20-Apr-2006
10:14:40 PM

was she putting them on right (i think not)

maxdacat

21-Apr-2006
1:45:03 AM

sounds like a good argument for putting in proper bolts!

wyt91t

21-Apr-2006
1:48:00 AM

i have clipped those bolts a thousand times i have never seen anyone else have a problem with them. so whats the go

rightarmbad

21-Apr-2006
4:13:28 AM

Try using RP 45 deg plates. They will stay put where many others won't.


brat

21-Apr-2006
7:34:18 AM

I bought some new AustriAlpin micro light weight draws and spent 10 minutes trying them on a bolt until I was happy that they wouldn't allow the RP to come off, they have a slimmer profile biner than standard and am regretting selling my older draws as I was totally happy with their security, the few ounces I've saved aren't an issue as I'm not climbing hard enough to warrant the change. I would think the new draws I have are the minimum profile, any less and they wouldn't capture the RP.

I have been wondering if this could be a problem with some of the newer draws on the market!


rodw

21-Apr-2006
8:06:20 AM

I've seen the same thing happen at the Dams on sisters of fatama by a guy i was belaying...he only been lead climbing in england (which i had found out later) and didnt put the bolts plates on right.....ie thin part on the bolt...i didnt notice until he was topping out kicked and accidently kicked the rope with his heels and ALL the brackets came off....scary but very funny in retrospect after he was out of harms way....needless to say he didnt do anymore leadingthat day.

climberman

21-Apr-2006
8:25:14 AM

I did this on my first ever lead, on How Much is that Doggy in the Window. My belayer left tellling me until I topped out. I sure never didi it again.


climbau

21-Apr-2006
8:27:52 AM

I seem to recall bolt brackets becoming bigger to allow for the change from 3/8th bolts to 10mm bolts. I wonder if these newer type bolt brackets on older 3/8th bolts combined with smaller profile biners exacerbates the whole mystery unclipping phenomena?


tnd

21-Apr-2006
8:42:01 AM

On 21/04/2006 climbau wrote:
>I seem to recall bolt brackets becoming bigger to allow for the change
>from 3/8th bolts to 10mm bolts. I wonder if these newer type bolt brackets
>on older 3/8th bolts combined with smaller profile biners exacerbates the
>whole mystery unclipping phenomena?

I've found that with a 3/8th bolt, a large bracket e.g. RP, SRT and a small biner, the bracket can be wiggled off, but it takes a bit of manipulation. I'd be pretty certain that in this case, with the bracket just lifting off, the climber has placed the bracket upside down. Have to admit to doing that myself early on in my leading career. Very disconcerting.

climbingjac

21-Apr-2006
10:34:44 AM

On 21/04/2006 maxdacat wrote:
>sounds like a good argument for putting in proper bolts!

Indeed!

I still don't understand why people are still placing carrots and expansion bolts (each of which involve the concept of hangers). A few annoying things about hangers include:

• It is very annoying how the small cross section on the hanger munches into your biners during falls.
• You cannot evacuate mid-route as easily as you can on ring bolts.
• It's a nuisance for people visiting from interstate/overseas to have to carry bolt plates for carrot routes. More gear = more weight = problems at the airport.
• Maybe we've got an imperial vs metric vs fancy new skinny biners issue as well.

All of the above-mentioned issues would be avoided if we were just placing glue-in rings…


HM33

21-Apr-2006
10:39:51 AM

i think you will find its becasue expansion bolts and hangers are sooooooo much easier to place than glue ins. they are also more replaceable in the future than glue ins.

Nottobetaken

21-Apr-2006
11:03:06 AM

On 21/04/2006 climbingjac wrote:
>All of the above-mentioned issues would be avoided if we were just placing
>glue-in rings…

Sounds like you need to move to South Australia Jackie...


anthonyk

21-Apr-2006
12:20:57 PM

> Were the climbers who had bolt plates come off new to using wiggly hangers? If so possibly they didn't
> place the narrow key hole section over the carrot head?

On 20/04/2006 wyt91t wrote:
>was she putting them on right (i think not)

i wasn't actually there, was talking about it afterwards, but short answer yes they know how its meant to be done i'm sure.

i'd say its possibly the larger bracket on smaller bolt issue, esp with smaller size quickdraws. the one i pulled off while cleaning on hotel california is a bit of a mystery, i'm pretty sure it was clipped in right and it had a standard size biner on it, so all i can think of is that it was a smaller bolt with a bigger hanger. grabbed the draw to clean it and next thing its all just in my hand.

having said that there was another bolt on the same pitch where the leader managed to miss the bolt plate entirely and clip behind the plate somehow so maybe there was something screwy that i didn't notice.


Rupert

21-Apr-2006
1:34:10 PM

Seem to recall this issue popping up (off?) with a couple of the bolts on Castle Crag years ago too? I think that was a micro biners issue. Anyone else remember?


DaCrux

21-Apr-2006
2:20:45 PM

I remember clipping a standard size biner into a hanger once and thinking it looked like it was gonna come off – so I just placed a stopper over it – learnt that trick from a couple of Canberrians

There are 52 messages in this topic.