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Wearing helmets


maxots

18-Nov-2005
12:38:37 PM

in the case of the totem pole incident, yes a hard shell helmet might have transferred force to his neck, but a "soft" helmet (petzl elios/meteor) would have no doubt reduced his injuries...

I honestly don't see why anyone wouldn't wear a helmet? Especially a model like the meteor. Its soo light, will take rock fall and head impacts. And dont say their too expensive...your safety is worth it...

the only reasons ive heard for why people DONT wear helmets seems to be:

> theyre too heavy...... um... get over it.. they weigh less than a cam! (ok so its on your head, but its not like your neck gets pumped or anything!

> theyre too hot ......... really?, i find the shade porbably keeps my cooler if anything... this seems a silly argument coming from climbers considering the unpleasantries we endure for our sport

> i havent been hit yet....... well history tells us this is only due to luck, it may not last!

Get helmets and wear them ! Please!

dalai

18-Nov-2005
12:49:38 PM

On 18/11/2005 maxots wrote:
>> i havent been hit yet....... well history tells us this is only due
>to luck, it may not last!

18 years of luck!!?? I better go out straight away and buy a lotto ticket! I could do with the extra million I am guaranteed to win!

Nothing like a religious zealot telling us all to do something!

Glad you wear one, but don't tell me what I must or must not do..

Bob Saki

18-Nov-2005
12:59:01 PM

to wear or not to wear is a personal choice and is entirely up to the individual climber.
If folks don't wear them they have their own reasons which are valid to them and vice versa for those who do wear helmets.

Stats, studies and like can be skewed to suit any argument let's face it. Wearing the helmet reduces injury risk to the head in certain conditions but thankfully in this world we have the right to choose whether we want more or less risk in any activity we undertake.
So wear a helmet and enjoy your climbing, don't wear a helmet and enjoy your climbing


sticky

18-Nov-2005
1:00:15 PM

On 18/11/2005 maxots wrote:
>>I honestly don't see why anyone wouldn't wear a helmet? Especially a model
>like the meteor. Its soo light, will take rock fall and head impacts. And
>dont say their too expensive...your safety is worth it...
>
>>Get helmets and wear them ! Please!

I think one issue here is of perception. If you see the top climbers on photo or video, they are rarely seen with helmets on, sport or trad. Have you ever seen a photo of Caldwell or HB or Forestier climbing in a helmet? I'm sure they have, but it's rare. (I'm not trying to get into judging whether that's good or bad, everyone makes their own choices as to risk and benefit). It's just that, from what I see, it seems that the higher grade a person climbs, the less likely they are to be seen wearing a helmet.

The result is that there's an unspoken assumption that if you wear a helmet you're a bit of a gumby. Especially on bolts. No-one really talks about it because it's a stupid reason not to wear one, but I reckon that one of the reasons people don't wear helmets is because it automatically makes you look like a better climber...

I don't always wear a helmet, especially when I'm visiting the Blueys or doing steep bolted routes, but sometimes I wonder whether that's cos the risk to my head is less or cos I'm just kidding myself.

Kyle


cruze

18-Nov-2005
1:01:51 PM

On 18/11/2005 Bob Saki wrote:
>to wear or not to wear is a personal choice and is entirely up to the individual

>So wear a helmet and enjoy your climbing, don't wear a helmet and enjoy
>your climbing

I hate it when people tell me that I have to enjoy my climbing! I mean just because they enjoy their climbing why do they have to impose their way of life on me! ;)


Garrath

18-Nov-2005
1:07:46 PM

hmmm to wear or not to wear. I do and on several occasions I have been somewhat glad. This includes even sport climbing.

I do wonder though if National Parks and the relevant state park authorites are not negligent in their duties by not making us wear helmets?

Goodvibes

18-Nov-2005
1:28:54 PM

WTF, of course they are. They should have climbing inspectors posted at every crag and bouldering area to make sure people are complying to the regulations. sorry sir but you are not to start climbing until you put sox on with those climbing shoes, wear a helmet and take a few cams along on that sport route just in case. Climbing is way to unregulated, we need to make some definite rules with regard to safety, technique and general crag behaviour that all climbers must comply with. And if someone gets hurt then for sure it can't possibly their own fault.


DaCrux

18-Nov-2005
1:31:05 PM

On 18/11/2005 Bob Saki wrote:
>to wear or not to wear is a personal choice and is entirely up to the individual
>climber.
We had an anatomy and physiology lecturer at my old uni, who used to climb until he got hit on the head by a relatively small rock and sustained a frontal lobe injury. He became disorganised, would lose his notes and came to lectures unprepared – apparently he was extremely pedantic before his injury. One day, when he was giving a lecture he walked towards a rubbish bin, unzipped his pants and urinated in front of all his students.
Wearing a helmet is a personal choice, but urinating in public will get you fired ;)

Bob Saki

18-Nov-2005
1:40:21 PM

On 18/11/2005 DaCrux wrote:
>>We had an anatomy and physiology lecturer at my old uni, who used to climb
>until he got hit on the head by a relatively small rock and sustained a
>frontal lobe injury. He became disorganised, would lose his notes and came
>to lectures unprepared – apparently he was extremely pedantic before his
>injury. One day, when he was giving a lecture he walked towards a rubbish
>bin, unzipped his pants and urinated in front of all his students.
>Wearing a helmet is a personal choice, but urinating in public will get
>you fired ;)

the poor old sod, he was unlucky. I personally don't take issue with any of the points you have made on this issue DaCrux you do present a convincing argument to put the old billy lid on but in a world when so many of our liberties have been taken away from us or are under threat I make the point that each climber should do as he or she pleases and if it goes belly -up we'll he/she can lament the decisions made. But like Devo said
"Freedom of choice - is what you want!!"
cs

>


wombly

18-Nov-2005
1:53:04 PM

The problem with the individual choice argument is that your choices aren't choices you make soley for yourself. They impact on other people at the crag who have to watch your brains dribble out of your skull when they get pounded. They also impact your relatives and the people who might have to look after you if you turn yourself into a vegetable. Yet again they impact the climbing community, especially newbies, as other people are influenced by your choice to wear or not wear one and follow the lead of what they see around them. I'm not saying that everyone should be forced to wear one, or that they should off their own bat always wear a helmet (i do most of the time, but not always), just that when you make that choice you may need to think beyond your own perspective...


DaCrux

18-Nov-2005
1:58:48 PM

On 18/11/2005 Bob Saki wrote:
>"Freedom of choice - is what you want!!"
I'm all for freedom of choice also and I respect your opinions - but I think that people have to be responsible for their own actions as well. I get annoyed when I look after people (young guys especially) who've done dumb things (e.g. opening a can of gun powder with an oxy torch, riding their bike at 200+ km/hr and crashing it, etc etc) who then take their anger out on medical and nursing staff and expect miracles to be performed. I'm not saying that not wearing a helmet is that dumb, but if you do get injured you are potentially putting other people at risk - your friends, rescue workers, paramedics. Rock climbing is a great sport, which is relatively safe, but like someone pointed out before you can minimise the risks involved by wearing a helmet, using a rope etc. I don’t think that being safe limits ones freedom of choice, and for me, my noggin is the most valuable part of my climbing gear.

Bob Saki

18-Nov-2005
2:23:56 PM

On 18/11/2005 wombly wrote:

>you may need to think beyond your own perspective...

Of course - but the others you climb with also have an implicit responsibility to make sure they are comfortable climbing with you. If they are happy you are not wearing a helmet they assume the risk that if rock falls, or you fall that that the lack of a helmet may increase the risk of serious injury. Let's face it if the worst happens those you are climbing with will do all they can to assit. It is inconvenient and may place others at risk. However, serious accidents do not seem to be that common. Yes if you are badly injured and are going to be imposing on relatives, partners and the like to assit you for the recovery period or on a permanent basis and don't wish this to happen it would be safer not to climb period as I believe anytime you head up that rock a number of factors could conspire to injure or kill you where a helmet would be no help at all. Climbing by it's very nature can be a risky passtime and if you are concerned about affecting others in any way eliminate unnecessary risk in your life - it's not essential that one climbs

uwhp510

18-Nov-2005
4:26:47 PM

>I don’t think that being safe limits
>ones freedom of choice,

Yes it does, it limits your choice to take risks (eg going climbing...)

Does the expression "Nanny State" ring any bells.


rodw

18-Nov-2005
5:27:50 PM

On 18/11/2005 billk wrote:
>.The tobacco industry
>love it, as do people who would like to see public money diverted away
>from welfare, hospitals and schools and to giving rich people tax cuts
>so they can get a second BMW.

How did we get here, I thought we were talking about wether to wear a helmet or not????


rodw

18-Nov-2005
7:10:46 PM

oh..... I see .....said the blind man who didnt really see at all....

uwhp510

18-Nov-2005
8:37:16 PM

I don't like being told what to do, especially when it conflicts with my idea of what is reasonable. I am not part of the tobacco industry, I support tax increases for the rich, I would like to see more public money in hospitals/schools/welfare and I don't have a BMW (I have a shitty Datsun 1600) but I still don't like being told what to do by people/governements "protecting" me from myself. I do concede that there perhaps were unintended historical connotations in my choice of language.

By the way I do wear a helmet most of the time, but that is because I choose to, based on my own judgement, not because I was guilted into it by those closely connected to brain injury patients.


tom_1

18-Nov-2005
11:01:19 PM

I don't see why you shouldn't. it's not like their uncomforatable or anything and if you don't know it's their then their shouldn't be a problem.

I need my head to think about cool shit


kezza

18-Nov-2005
11:29:30 PM

How about...

If you wear a helmet.. continue to do so

If you don't... continue to do so

If you sometimes wear a helmet... continue to do so..

If you just post on chockstone for shits and giggles... you get the gist

As Napolean Dynamite once said "I'll do what ever I feel like, goh!"


AlanD

18-Nov-2005
11:57:15 PM

On 18/11/2005 uwhp510 wrote:
>By the way I do wear a helmet most of the time, but that is because I
>choose to, based on my own judgement, not because I was guilted into it
>by those closely connected to brain injury patients.

I doubt that DaCrux is trying to make you feel guilty about not wearing a helmet, she sees brain injured people people far to often and probably would prefer never to see any of us in her hospital. The reality is that climbing is a safe sport, relative to say riding a road bike, playing football etc, but it's safe because we minimize the risks and one area where many of us are unnecessarily increasing the risks is by not wearing a helmet.


DaCrux

19-Nov-2005
1:52:13 AM

There are 123 messages in this topic.