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Wearing helmets

21Cmalaise

19-Nov-2005
11:46:35 PM

On 16/11/2005 billk wrote:
>The theory of risk homeostasis states that an individual has an inbuilt target level of >acceptable risk which does not change. This level varies between individuals. When >the level of acceptable risk in one part of the individual's life changes; there will be a >corresponding rise/drop in acceptable risk elsewhere. The same, argues Wilde, is true >of larger human systems (e.g. a population of drivers).

Fair enough, however:

"The only specific field accident data offered in the literature to support the risk homeostasis theory are found to, in fact, refute the theory. The accident data provide evidence that a rich variety of user responses occur. While it is possible for users to collectively respond in such a way that safety benefits are completely cancelled, such a response is not particularly common; it is certainly not universally occurring, as suggested by the risk homeostasis theory. It is concluded that the risk homeostasis theory should be rejected because there is no convincing evidence supporting it and much evidence refuting it."

Still, whether it's true or not it was very interesting reading. Gives you something to think about - basically you're buggered if you do and buggered if you don't.

I still maintain that when I wear my helmet I do not take extra risks - in fact I reckon it makes me more aware of my mortality, what with me smashing it into rocks all the time, getting it wedged in cracks, feeling really unbalanced and not being able to see properly! Damn - no wonder I don't wear it that much - maybe it's time to get a new one!


shmalec

21-Nov-2005
1:31:19 PM

Quite a few interesting comments here.

One I'd like to take up. If you always wear a helmet you can't claim that it doesn't assist you in taking on a risky situation. If you were just as happy to climb it unhelmeted then you wouldn't wear it at all. So yes, I admit, I wear a helmet and it helps me take on the risks of climbing, just like ropes and pro. If I stopped, I would probably feel uncomfortable at least for a while. But I doubt my level of acceptable "helmeted" risk is noticeably greater than those of most unhelmeted climbers.

I guess like wearing helmets in cars the difference in overall risk may be very small. But as I'm used to wearing it, I don't really care.

Would I climb the same if I had developed a habit of not wearing a helmet early on? This would imply a slightly higher level of acceptable risk. Dunno. Still pondering that one. Certainly in an alpine environment there is no question that helmets make a difference.


billk

21-Nov-2005
2:12:19 PM

On 18/11/2005 rodw wrote:
>oh..... I see .....said the blind man who didnt really see at all....

You're right Rod it was a segue too far. I've scrubbed it.


The Good Dr

22-Nov-2005
11:42:49 AM

Wendy

22-Nov-2005
2:59:28 PM

>the only reasons ive heard for why people DONT wear helmets seems to be:
>
>> theyre too heavy...... um... get over it.. they weigh less than a cam!
>(ok so its on your head, but its not like your neck gets pumped or anything!
>
>> theyre too hot ......... really?, i find the shade porbably keeps my
>cooler if anything... this seems a silly argument coming from climbers
>considering the unpleasantries we endure for our sport
>
>> i havent been hit yet....... well history tells us this is only due
>to luck, it may not last!
>
>Get helmets and wear them ! Please!

I'm sure I provided some other reasons earlier - they don't fit, I can't bury myself in an offwidth wearing one, they get in my peripheral vision, they fall off the back of my head, they change my perception of my body's boundaries, and I forget to ... One of the main reasons I don't wear one all the time is that I do really notice it when I am wearing it. I also just compared the weight of my helmet and my 5 camalot - the helmet is heavier! I suggest that the 5 camalot is so light that you may as well carry it up everything, it may save your life one day.

It may be good luck I haven't needed my helmet climbing in 16 years, but that luck doesn't seem to extend to the rest of my life having hit my head badly twice in aerial performance, broken 11 bones falling off a cliff when a path collapsed, broken my ankle 3 times bouldering ... I would suggest that good judgement and good use of gear have got a lot more to do with the continued intactness of my skull than luck ...

I'm not sure what makes one particularly stupid for not wearing helmets on trad routes ... if you are really concerned about the risks of hitting your head in a fall, well, there's a lot of falling happening in gyms and on sport routes. I've also broken holds off sport routes, a few bolts doesn't make the crag solid rock. Not wearing a helmet in these locations is a judgement call. I make judgements at all crags regardless and choose to wear mine or not after weighing up risk versus the impact on my climbing. That is, if I remembered to bring it ...

Should we enforce the putting in of good gear? Check people's gear at random and issue on the spot fines for poor gear placement? Or for not putting in enough gear or for soloing? Put a fee on bold routes to be contributed to accident rescue and rehabilitation costs. These all be activities increasing the risk of climbing. In my opinion, more than deciding to wear a helmet or not based on the conditions of a climb on the day. And driving to the crag is probably the most risky thing we'll do all day.

I'm still keeping an eye out for those up to 90% of climbers wearing helmets ... has anyone else noticed that there are 101% of respondants in this poll?

James

22-Nov-2005
10:11:01 PM

On 22/11/2005 Wendy wrote:
>I'm still keeping an eye out for those up to 90% of climbers wearing helmets
>... has anyone else noticed that there are 101% of respondants in this
>poll?

40% of statistics are made up anyway...


Rich

24-Nov-2005
1:34:19 AM

I haven't read all the posts cos I came in late so sorry if I'm doubling up..
I reckon it's great if people wear helmets all the time, certainly safer I guess. Personally I wear a helmet on trad and leave it at home for sport.
Don't know if anyone mentioned that even if there is minimal chance of rockfall, on trad, if you fall and your top piece pulls, there is a high potential for you to spin out of control and potentially smack into the rock. So as well as rockfall and potentially more dangerous falls, thats the other reason for wearing on trad.
for those that bump their head.. like others mentioned, that's their kinesthetic awareness (i think) or awareness of your body in space. I can't remember the last time i bumped my head without a helmet but have certainly done it with one.


AlanD

24-Nov-2005
7:45:06 AM

On 24/11/2005 Rich wrote:
like others mentioned, that's their kinesthetic
>awareness (i think) or awareness of your body in space. I can't remember
>the last time i bumped my head without a helmet but have certainly done
>it with one.

6 months of caving every weekend will cure this.


littlethor

24-Nov-2005
1:04:22 PM

On 24/11/2005 Rich wrote:
>Don't know if anyone mentioned that even if there is minimal chance of
>rockfall, on trad, if you fall and your top piece pulls, there is a high
>potential for you to spin out of control and potentially smack into the
>rock. So as well as rockfall and potentially more dangerous falls, thats
>the other reason for wearing on trad.

Rich - i just got back from Arapiles and am currently nursing a badly sprained ankle and pulled muscles in my neck and back from exactly that- spinning out of control and smacking into the rock.. I fell after getting off-route, landed badly on one foot but then swung around so that i was facing away from the rock, subsequently doing a big human pendulum and hitting the other side of the little gully HEAD ON with all of my falling force.

i think i probably pendulumed about 3 metres and all of my force ended up being taken by my head (and subsequently my neck) and had i not been wearing a helmet i am pretty convinced that a screwed ankle would have been the least of my worries. this was my first ever lead fall.

The route was Jezebel (13) on the Pharos. The first pitch (as far as i got) is pretty low-angled and mainly sticks to a tight chimney-corner system. It was not very steep, something which my fall even worse and more painful as i hit things on the way down.

So, not only is my confidence in the system (and my own ropework and gear placements) greatly increased but the whole episode reinforced my philosophy to WEAR YOUR HELMET, even if you think it's easy.

i'm off to lick my wounds and recover for my next trip, with helmet firmly attached to noggin!


IdratherbeclimbingM9

28-Sep-2009
1:27:57 PM

Poll snapshot 24 Nov. 2005

Yes, all the time 74 (58%)
No, never 14 (11%)
Sometimes 30 (24%)
Yes, if it looks like head injury is possible 9 (7%)
Sometimes, if i dont know the climb 0 (0%)

This Poll had a good response back then...
~> Now that I have dredged it up again I am interested in seeing how the numbers may change, if at all, in the enlightened(?) year of 2009, given that there are some new players on Chockstone these days, and some of the old players may have changed their helmet habits.

Guniea Sauras Rex

28-Sep-2009
3:20:24 PM

I wear mine all the time; my partner only wears his occasionally when trad climbing.

I am always surprised by the amount of people who don't wear their helmet at the bottom of the crag. All my direct hits and near misses have been when I have been standing around at the bottom of the cliff or belaying.

The time I had to go to hospital was the time my helmet was not on my head - but on my bag near my feet :( I was belaying at the time and the climber was not yet high enough so that you had time to see where the missile was going.

Cracks to the noggin are no fun. They wrap up your head like you are an escaped mental patient and getting to sleep with an inflamed scalp with stitches is very difficult - there is no comfortable place to put your head


Organ Pipe

28-Sep-2009
3:52:49 PM

Back in 2005, had I been a member of the forum, I would have said "no never" but a few years on and now I wear mine "all the time". Trad, Aid, Sport, all the time.

The impact of me leaving this earth prematurely would have a far more profound impact on those I love now than it did back then.

I guess that's what happens when families, and mortgages etc come along.


nmonteith

28-Sep-2009
4:24:33 PM

Since moving to chossy NSW I wear mine every time I go trad climbing or multi-pitch climbing. Too much loose rock!


Sarah Gara

28-Sep-2009
5:09:31 PM

I usually wear mine all the time - but saying that I was belaying yesterday -toproping outside and I didn't have it on -but multi pitch yes always yesterday was very much an exception. And I do have to say though that had there been anyone else that had been wearing a helmet I would have left mine on while I was belaying as I had it on when I was belaying a leader and when I was climbing. This however is a silly reason not to wear a helmet -cos all the cool kids weren't wearing them. It's not a fashion statement really is it. x


foreverabumbly

28-Sep-2009
5:22:23 PM

I ticked all the time, but thats a lie.

bl@ke

28-Sep-2009
6:00:31 PM

All the time


wallwombat

28-Sep-2009
8:15:30 PM

On 28/09/2009 Guniea Sauras Rex wrote:

>I am always surprised by the amount of people who don't wear their helmet
>at the bottom of the crag. All my direct hits and near misses have been
>when I have been standing around at the bottom of the cliff or belaying.

I wear mine more when I'm belaying than when I am climbing.

I ticked sometimes.


salty crag

28-Sep-2009
8:42:30 PM

Belaying "fester fumble" recently, mongrel dropped two pieces of gear, might have been trying to "take me out"? My lid stays on even if the heads empty...

Wendy

29-Sep-2009
8:17:17 AM

The poll isn't that different 4 years part, but I reckon it would have been very different had we done one before the late 90s. I didn't even own a helmet for the first 8 years I climbed, then pretty much only wore it because I had to for work for most of the next 5 years and I'm still a "sometimes". However, when I rocked up in Cham with 10minutes before the last lift last year only to discover my helmet was not it the car (I must have left it on the roadside during the manic pack after a big day in the Ecrins) I was a little perturbed. Still, given the choice between missing the lift and going without a helmet, I went without a helmet. Whoever was belaying wore Anthony's helmet. Anthony and helmet wearing were even further behind the times. Rather early on in our relationship, he drove up to meet me at Mt abrupt where I'd been working for a few days so we could do Powerdive. I had a pretty good idea the cliff was loose and a car full of company helmets so I handed him one. No, he didn't need it. I said I thought the cliff was mank and I was wearing mine. He said no, his friend had told him the rock was good. After some repetition between 2 rather stubborn people, Anthony's stubbornness won out over mine. At the top of the first pitch, the belay is covered in sharp, point shale. I sang the I was right song. After that, a bunch of his friends and I just bought him one for his birthday and he actually wears it in all the places that I would wear mine now although he did have to carry it up to the cliff but not wear it a few times to break himself in gently.

egosan

29-Sep-2009
9:17:52 AM

I am wear mine all the time. Even now as I sit at my workstation in cubical land. And yes,
Andrew, I had mine lead lined because that silly tin hat of yours just isn't OH&S certified to
protect from mind control and venereal disease.

There are 123 messages in this topic.