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OmegaPacific biners - a word of warning

hotgemini

11-Sep-2005
2:06:17 PM

I agree with Patto, a big thanks to hammok_climber for dragging this thread off-topic and effectively devaluing it.


Hatman

11-Sep-2005
3:38:40 PM

I have two of the "jake" biners. I have noticed that they seem to get cross loaded more than my regular biners. I originaly used the omega SBGII with them to belay. when loaded sudenly (fall) and crossloaded with the belay device stem in the danger (sharp) area, It can be very hard to get the biner orientated corectly because of the sight dip where the gate meets the body.

This forces you to lower the leader (top roper) with the rope over the sharp edge! Very disturbing.

From now on Me thinks I only use my jake's for setup! The SBGII device is sitll my favorite belay/abseil device and I have no problems useing it on other biners.


Rich

12-Sep-2005
1:09:44 AM

On 11/09/2005 patto wrote:
>I don't think this should turn into an Omega trashing session. There
>seems to be a issue with one Omega carabiner design. I have faith that
>Omega will take this seriously and I am hoping for a voluntary recall.
>
i agree. I used to have wiregate omega quickdraws (since stolen) and fell on one that spun and crossloaded on the bolt.. wire gate bent but held no worries. prob not that relevant but yeah like patto said, just one design problem with one biner.

wyt91t

12-Sep-2005
2:32:05 AM

most of my gear is omega and black diamond. my draws are omega ive taken giant falls on my gear and everything looks great no sharp edges on any pieces of gear that i have. i have the twist lock version and use it on my harness at the gym and never had problems with it.i use it when belaying a lead climb too,but i use the gri-gri for that.


brat

12-Sep-2005
8:26:47 AM

I was at a local climbing gym where they used the biners mentioned to tie in to a full body harness through both tie in points rather than the belay loop for route setting. I had the loops re-made as the biner wore against the harness due to the aforementioned edge, didn't seem like an immediate safety issue at the time (ie was a problem over a period rather OMG bring me down!). I actually gave them one of my own screw gate biners to use rather then re-damage the harness, I hadn't thought about the other possibilities but in hindsight I'm not suprised, the edge isn't overly obvious but it is machined, therefore would have a serrated bread knife effect under the right(wrong) conditions.


climbau

12-Sep-2005
8:46:22 AM

I have a OP Jake because of the wide gate opening. This makes it perfect for certain rigging situations. It has never occured to me to use this biner for anything other than when I need to get a lot of rope in the one biner, simply because I feel they are too big and bulky for a belay biner and overkill in most other situations. I can however see the potential (as demonstrated by the experiences of others) for damage to rope and perhaps the edges need to be softened to avoid future issues. But I also think that we have to be responsible for the choices we make regarding gear selection (how much gate opening do you really need in order to clip a belay rope through?).


manacubus

12-Sep-2005
9:16:38 AM

Has anyone considered that nearly all screwgates have an inset portion near the screw mechanism that will trash ropes?

rightarmbad

12-Sep-2005
9:57:40 AM

I have some of these, the gate opening is no wider than some other HB ones I have.

I stopped using them for belaying and hung them in the cupboard as they are quite soft, and the anodising marks up quite easily if you clip anything metal into them. I was hanging around on a stop descender for a while and it just made mince meat of them. The HB's on the other hand show no damage.

I do remember that they would often rotate to the wrong orientation when belaying as I was taught to belay from both loops like tying in. The rounded profile was good for belaying with a munter hitch though.


brat

12-Sep-2005
10:58:07 AM

Re Manacubus, yep, check for potential wear areas and ease of cross loading before I buy anything, probably why all my biners are AustriAlpin!

PS where's Qurank?


manacubus

12-Sep-2005
11:19:09 AM

(yep, trying to sort that out now - use the http://p223.ezboard.com/bqueenslandclimbing link in the meantime)

back to topic!


brat

12-Sep-2005
12:04:51 PM

Phew, was getting withdrawals, haven't been able to get on since Saturday!

Back to what Lee said!

dave

13-Sep-2005
7:37:26 PM

On 12/09/2005 manacubus wrote:
>Has anyone considered that nearly all screwgates have an inset portion
>near the screw mechanism that will trash ropes?

Yeh that is correct but i think the issue in this case is the extra curve in the basket of the biner, ie. the large curve at the top. This can create another 'major axis' so to speak where the rope will sit; this wont happen in more 'D' shaped biners.

patto

13-Sep-2005
11:27:40 PM

On 13/09/2005 dave wrote:
>On 12/09/2005 manacubus wrote:
>>Has anyone considered that nearly all screwgates have an inset portion
>>near the screw mechanism that will trash ropes?
>
>Yeh that is correct but i think the issue in this case is the extra curve
>in the basket of the biner, ie. the large curve at the top. This can create
>another 'major axis' so to speak where the rope will sit; this wont happen
>in more 'D' shaped biners.

Spot on.

As I said on the previous page, many non screwgates and at least 1 other screwgate exhibit this problem of a rought edge. The major flaw with the Omega is that this rough edge resides at a point where the rope is in stable equilibrium. Not only that the biner has a tendancy to rotate into this equibrium when used as a belay biner or a top rope biner. This is why this biner is unique in this issue.


Climboholic

14-Sep-2005
7:44:31 AM

Has anyone heard back from OP? I sent them a short email letting them know about the possible problem with their biner and this thread. I'm sure other people have also contacted them.

I sent the email a few days ago. Actually that's a lot less time than it feels like. Time goes slow when your stuck indoors, away from any climbable vertical surfaces. I should just wait for a reasonable amount of time for a reply I suppose. I get so impatient when I can't climb. Guess that's why I've been writting so many posts lately.


mic

14-Sep-2005
9:26:09 AM

On 11/09/2005 hammok_climber wrote:
>I don’t mean to add this info in a negative way, but Omega carabiners are
>made in prison. Not relevant to the design, but any publicity is good publicity
>right?
>Go omega! http://www.washingtonfreepress.org/29/Prison1.html
>

For what it's worth, I hear Omega Pacific no longer contract out to the prison system, They stopped recently.

climber72

15-Sep-2005
3:50:01 PM

do you think it would be possible to file down sharp edges, without compromising the strength/action of
such biners or other hardware for that matter?

hotgemini

16-Sep-2005
12:11:41 PM

A bit of work with sandpaper to knock off sharp edges is something that shouldn't affect the strength (sharp edges won't be bearing the load, or if they are then they'll be acting as a stress raiser) but I still wouldn't be comfortable recommending as technically any modifications mean the testing/certification is out the door.

Its now been a week since I contacted omega pacific and I must say I'm a little disappointed and underwhelmed that we haven't had a reply yet. On the one hand I hope they could be performing some exhaustive testing and formulating a complex resolution the issue... On the other hand they could also be hoping it goes away.

patto

16-Sep-2005
12:28:28 PM

On 16/09/2005 hotgemini wrote:
>A bit of work with sandpaper to knock off sharp edges is something that
>shouldn't affect the strength (sharp edges won't be bearing the load, or
>if they are then they'll be acting as a stress raiser) but I still wouldn't
>be comfortable recommending as technically any modifications mean the testing/certificatio
> is out the door.
>
>Its now been a week since I contacted omega pacific and I must say I'm
>a little disappointed and underwhelmed that we haven't had a reply yet.
> On the one hand I hope they could be performing some exhaustive testing
>and formulating a complex resolution the issue... On the other hand they
>could also be hoping it goes away.

I say give them another week and then we get a few more emails out. I'm inclined to email them next week about this. I for one am annoyed about this biner issue and still hoping Omega decides to replace these biners. Their designed should definately be changed, 99% of the time the biner will perform well a serious accident is definately a possibility with the biner in its current form.


Richard

16-Sep-2005
1:01:27 PM

Not being a lawyer, but if Omega have been informed of it, and an accident does happen, you'd think they'd be further up sh#t than if they had not be informed of the issue.

There is enough evidence here of a serious design flaw that a responsible company should recall the product an then do the testing, not vice-a-verse.


brat

16-Sep-2005
3:02:24 PM

Maybe they haven't realised how litigious their fellow country men are! :o)

There are 78 messages in this topic.