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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

 Page 4 of 8. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 100 | 101 to 120 | 121 to 140 | 141 to 151
Author
Dear Simey

tmarsh
5/04/2007
12:26:59 PM
On 4/04/2007 simey wrote:
>Uhhh? You've lost me.

I'm ashamed to say I knew exactly what he was referring to. Go watch 'Bring it On'.

M10iswhereitsat.
15/07/2007
9:26:46 AM
'...When Steve Monks invited me on the trip (along with Jane Wilkinson and Simon Carter), I jumped at the chance, although I only expected to tag along and second Steve to glory. Whatís interesting is that we almost never did the free route. After reaching the summit via the aid route and doing the tyrolean back to the mainland we almost went home. In fact Steve and Jane did leave because Steve wasnít very confident about the free-climbing possibilities. I thought I had better swing back to the summit and abseil down the other sides of the Totem Pole just to make sure we werenít leaving behind a potential mega-classic. Simon Carter waited for me on the mainland and Iím sure he remembers my whoops of delight when I saw just how climbable it was.

Bolting the line and then climbing it was pretty much a formality as we had the moves sussed after checking it in on abseil. Steve had the honours on the first pitch, while I nabbed the second pitch. I spent a fair bit of time bolting the second pitch and making sure the clips were okay for shorter folk. I remember Steve complaining that I was taking too long and faffing around, but I really wanted to get it right. I could have easily climbed the thing with half the number of bolts (I ended up placing ten), but I always bolt things for the ground-up climber. One of my pet-hates is people creating ridiculously run-out climbs after rap-inspection...'


Dear Simey , or Onsight , I'm gunna have a lash at the Tote this Spring, but would appreciate some beta first ...

... its been some 12 years since the bolts went in , in an obviously highly-metalic-corrosive environment ( even for stainless steel perhaps )

Can you please try to beta-ise the following :

1) What does 12 years of salt water/air do to stainless steel bolts ? ; especially ones that might have micro tears from falls or ' pitting ' from the salt ...

2) What sort of drill did you use ? ; hand , cadmium-nickel ?

3) What diameter are the bolts ? ; in mms.

4) What length are the bolts ? ; hopefully quite long to deal with ' scalloping ' in hard rock .

5) Any brackets required to be taken along for the 2nd pitch ?

6) Did you glue-in the bolts ? ; if so what sort of glue & what does 12 years do to such glue in a salt enviro ...

7) Cheers in advance:-)







muki
15/07/2007
9:58:23 AM
All fixed hangers in the second pitch, some trad near the top,, the bolts are 10mm from memory, have'nt
done the new first pitch but from friends descriptions the gear/plates are pumpy to place, the new first
pitch will require hanger plates, tag line the rap rope from the rap rings on the mainland side when
seconding to allow a tirolene exit, as rapping down the tote is where all prior accidents have occured.
Have fun this is an awsome climb.
simey
15/07/2007
12:26:00 PM
On 15/07/2007 M10iswhereitsat. wrote:
>Dear Simey , or Onsight , I'm gunna have a lash at the Tote this Spring, but would appreciate some beta first ...

Gee, you've got the opportunity on this thread for me to solve all your love life problems and you just wanna know some boring climbing shit. Oh well...

>... its been some 12 years since the bolts went in, in an obviously highly-metalic-corrosive environment (even for stainless steel perhaps )
>
>Can you please try to beta-ise the following :
>
>1) What does 12 years of salt water/air do to stainless steel bolts ?; especially ones that might have micro tears from falls or ' pitting ' from the salt ...

Absolutely no idea, but I have asked numerous parties what their impression of the bolts were and they have all said the bolts appear fine. Personally I would be very surprised if the bolts were suffering from corrosion or other problems.

>2) What sort of drill did you use ? ; hand , cadmium-nickel ?
All the bolts on the second pitch were placed using a battery powered drill (thanks to Sam Edwards for lending us his drill). I think Steve did a combo of hand drilling and power drilling on the first pitch when he placed his stainless carrots.
>
>3) What diameter are the bolts ? ; in mms.
The second pitch has 12mm dynabolts with the hangers sitting on the sleeve of the bolts. I'm not sure what bolts Steve has placed on the new first pitch (which is now the standard way) as I wasn't there. I am assuming they are stainless carrots but I could be wrong. I know some of the bolts on this pitch require hangers, but I am not sure if they all do.

>4) What length are the bolts ? ; hopefully quite long to deal with ' scalloping' in hard rock .
The length of the bolts on the second pitch are 65mm (as I recall). When you say 'scalloping' I assume you mean the edge of the hole breaking away. This wasn't an issue with the bolts on the second pitch. I don't recall this being an issue with the bolts on the first pitch but I can't say that for certain.

>5) Any brackets required to be taken along for the 2nd pitch ?
No.

>6) Did you glue-in the bolts ? ; if so what sort of glue & what does 12 years do to such glue in a salt enviro ...
No.

>7) Cheers in advance:-)
No worries. My gut feeling is that the quality of the bolts is not going to be an issue. And since Steve added an additional bolt to the new first pitch, it is now a much less scary proposition (particularly for shorter folk).

The spacing between the bolts on the second pitch increases slightly after half-height as the difficulty eases. You are in a relatively safe situation given the number of bolts below you. Don't forget a few wires and/or cams to plug in near the top.




nmonteith
15/07/2007
12:51:00 PM
Carrots looked good on the first pitch, which is suprising since they were being covered in waves when i
was here! The rock is actually far from hard, its quite a bit softer than Gramps sandstone. Dolerite is
quite a 'light' rock, containing a fair bit of air in the mix i think.
Onsight
15/07/2007
1:51:05 PM
Ahh, the memories...

>And since Steve added an additional bolt to the new first pitch, it is now a much less scary proposition

aka the Deep Play Varient. I innocently sand-bagged Lynn Hill on that soon after Steve and Enga had done it. "Hey Lynn, there's a new first pitch, apparently it's a bit easier...". No doubt Lynn would have been cursing when she found herself 13m up, with a hard very balancey move, looking at hitting the water... It was her first pitch of climbing in the country; "welcome to Australia, land of the sandbag". Turned out Steve had always intended there to be another bolt there but they ran out of time. Enga fixed it the following year.

Both of the first pitches are good. The original a bit more cruxy, though less sustained, and harder if you're shorter.

M10iswhereitsat.
15/07/2007
3:14:25 PM
Found some more stuff...

http://www.bigredclimbing.com/totem.html

http://www.chockstone.org/Forum/Forum.asp?Action=Display&ForumID=1&MessageID=43971

http://www.k2climb.net/story/PouBrotherstofreeclimbTotemPoleinTasmaniaFeb22005.shtml

>

M10iswhereitsat.
15/07/2007
3:28:16 PM
On 15/07/2007 bomber pro wrote:
>the gear/plates are pumpy to place...

...no fun ... time for some weight training.

>, the new first
>pitch will require hanger plates, tag line the rap rope from the rap rings
>on the mainland side when
>seconding to allow a tirolene exit, as rapping down the tote is where
>all prior accidents have occured.

Rap rings on the mainland but what is the gear for the tyro on the tote side ?

>Have fun this is an awsome climb.

I hope so !!! Just trying to take the shock out of the awe first;-)

M10iswhereitsat.
15/07/2007
3:50:29 PM
On 15/07/2007 simey wrote:
>On 15/07/2007 M10iswhereitsat. wrote:
>>Dear Simey , or Onsight , I'm gunna have a lash at the Tote this Spring,
>but would appreciate some beta first ...
>
>Gee, you've got the opportunity on this thread for me to solve all your
>love life problems and you just wanna know some boring climbing shit. Oh
>well...
>
Hey ! climbing IS my love life :P
>>... its been some 12 years since the bolts went in, in an obviously highly-metalic-corro
>ive environment (even for stainless steel perhaps )
>>
>>Can you please try to beta-ise the following :

Just a few more things, Simey in preperation for my onsight/flash :P

>Absolutely no idea, but I have asked numerous parties what their impression
>of the bolts were and they have all said the bolts appear fine. Personally
>I would be very surprised if the bolts were suffering from corrosion or
>other problems.

Anyone got any idea how many free ascents since 1995 ?

And how many wingers have there been onto any of the bolts, especially on 2nd pitch...

>The second pitch has 12mm dynabolts with the hangers sitting on the sleeve
>of the bolts.

Dynabolts... Are these expansion bollts with the plate flush against the rock face which are done up with a shifter/spanner ? If so, I believe these sort of industrial bolts are designed to hold static loads, not dynamic SHEAR loads ...


>I'm not sure what bolts Steve has placed on the new first
>pitch (which is now the standard way) as I wasn't there. I am assuming
>they are stainless carrots but I could be wrong. I know some of the bolts
>on this pitch require hangers, but I am not sure if they all do.

OK ... but what size hangers are required ?


>The length of the bolts on the second pitch are 65mm (as I recall). When
>you say 'scalloping' I assume you mean the edge of the hole breaking away.
>This wasn't an issue with the bolts on the second pitch. I don't recall
>this being an issue with the bolts on the first pitch but I can't say that
>for certain.

65mm... should be OK ...
' Scalloping ' is where a scallop shaped piece of rock rips out of the rock face , with the bolt still sitting in this ~ 6" diameter piece of rock

>>6) Did you glue-in the bolts ? ; if so what sort of glue & what does
>12 years do to such glue in a salt enviro ...
>No.

How come no glue to stop salt moisture getting into drill hole ?

>No worries. My gut feeling is that the quality of the bolts is not going
>to be an issue. And since Steve added an additional bolt to the new first
>pitch, it is now a much less scary proposition (particularly for shorter
>folk).

Cheers again:-) The photo of Steve on the ' 95 1st pitch looks fkn desperate !! ... what grade is it around the corner, on the South face and up the crack (protected with fixed pegs, yeah ?) to the big belay ledge ?


>The spacing between the bolts on the second pitch increases slightly after
>half-height as the difficulty eases.

OK ... its a VERY long pitch !!! where is the ' Gr 24/25 ' crux ... what sort of grade is most of the climbing on this pitch ... please ... ppl just rave about it being a great pitch , but how physically/mentally hard is it ... the exposure looks HORRENDOUS !!! ... and what if you fall high up ? obviously need a 70 metre rope to red point it , yeah ...


>You are in a relatively safe situation given the number of bolts below you. Don't forget >a few wires and/or cams to plug in near the top.

Well done for not bolting this bit .

M10iswhereitsat.
15/07/2007
4:00:49 PM
On 15/07/2007 nmonteith wrote:
>Carrots looked good on the first pitch, which is suprising since they were
>being covered in waves when i was here!

So does stainless corrode or not ?

The rock is actually far from hard, its quite a bit softer than
>Gramps sandstone. Dolerite is
>quite a 'light' rock, containing a fair bit of air in the mix i think.

Yeah ? Oils aint oils ... the dolerite on Mt Wellington is VERY hard, according to Parkyn ...Gramps ' sandstone ' is generally metamorphosed ala ceramics.

But yeah, thats why I' m wondering about bolts suitability / rock integrity ...


Did you lead the 2nd pitch , Neil ? ... how sustained , what grade did you find most of it to be ? Is it mostly just crankin on small holds / layaways ?

M10iswhereitsat.
15/07/2007
4:10:47 PM
On 15/07/2007 Onsight wrote:
>Ahh, the memories...

>Both of the first pitches are good. The original a bit more cruxy, though
>less sustained, and harder if you're shorter.


OK ... what grade is it from the kelp ledge to the hanging belay, which most ppl seem to try to pendulum across to ? ... I want to free climb the WHOLE thing ... and very importantly has anyone been to the summit FREE ?? I know that Simon Parsons , on the 3rd Aid ascent , circa 1979, ' summited ' by stepping up in an et, attached to a stopper placed in the obvious crack above the ' No Standing ' sign , and touch the very top with his hand only ... Has this last block been free climbed ? ... has ANYONE EVER stood on top ??? ... Neil, Simey , Bomber ? Please share;-)


Cheers guys !!!

Much appreciated !!!


M10iswhereitsat.
15/07/2007
4:22:36 PM
Anybody know who these individuals are ?

M10iswhereitsat.
15/07/2007
4:41:12 PM
'...I was aiming for a two-foot dry patch on a half drowned boulder alongside the Totem Pole. As soon as I landed I commenced fighting for my balance on the seaweed-greased rock, first sticking my crotch out and then my arse. All the while my arms behaved like the crazy cop in the silent movies who is trying to stop Harold Lloydís motor car.

The next minute I was up to my waist in the sea that was flushing through the narrow channel. I couldnít believe my bad luck, we only had one try at this and I just blew it. I would be hypothermic soon if I didnít get out of these soaking clothes and, besides, my boots and rope were wet and my chalk bag was full of water.

I fixed my jumar clamps onto the line and took in the slack, which is about two moves on the rope. I cut loose in a swing off the boulder.

I had to tuck my knees up to avoid getting my feet in the water as I flew around the areteÖ And that is the last thing I remember - until I came around with an unearthly groan.

When I regained consciousness I was upside down, confused and there was blood pissing out of my head. I was immediately aware of the gravity of the situation. I needed to get back upright if I was to stem the flow of blood so I concentrated on shrugging my pack off. Once off, I tried again and again to get myself sat up in my harness but failed miserably. I was too weak and strangely uncoordinated. I gazed despondently down at the orange stain spreading in the salt water from an obtuse angle.

I had a moment to reflect on what seemed to be my last view. A narrow corridor of pale grey cloud flanked by two black walls, with the white foam of the sea, which was turning quickly red, right there by my head as a ceiling to my fear. I could feel the lifeís blood draining out of me, literally, and there was nothing I could do about it.

Suddenly Celia was there, by me, telling me sweet lies about how it was all going to be OK. "I heard a splash", she said in her Buckinghamshire/Yorkshire accent. "Youíve taken a little rock on your head but youíve had worse." Itís funny but those untruths are extremely comforting in moments like these...'


I really want to get this ascent right, guys ... all replys are valuable ... THX !!!
simey
15/07/2007
4:52:33 PM
I think you are getting too hung up on every little aspect.

As for dynabolts, well I can only go on my experience and knowledge. I'm not aware of dynabolts failing in climbing situations. But I am aware of 10mm dynabolts being overtorqued during placement and shearing. However the bolts I placed were 12mm bolts and I made a point of not overtorquing them. The hangers sit on the sleeve allowing the nut to be screwed on properly without being half-on like some poorly placed dynabolts I've seen.

Static loads, shear loads... f---ed if I know all that stuff, but I would be quite happy to lob onto these babies. And they have been placed at regular intervals to provide back-up should something in the system fail unexpectedly.
simey
15/07/2007
5:04:00 PM
Steve climbed the summit block via the crack above the 'no standing' sign, but I didn't bother.

muki
15/07/2007
5:54:03 PM
The First bit of climbing seldom gets climbed or is in a climbable state! read covered in slime/seasalt,
or barraged by huge swells that come in 25 second intervals, not quite enough time to get to grips with
the slimey start, therefore most parties batman or swing in to the hanging belay at the start to avoid
the hasle of wet gear/ropes, and the slime factor.
I have freed the tote twice, the first trip with Ben Firth (canadian) I led the first pitch and Ben the
second.
The second trip was with Tim Holdsworth he aided the first pitch and I freed the second, both times we
stood on the summit, one at a time, the final bit from the top belay is only 3/4 meters easy crack.
The third time I wanted to lead both pitches but the swell was too huge, a 50m rope is fine, as there is
a big belay ledge at half hight on the side you can't see from the mainland.
(trail a seperate fixed line from the mainland anchor to the top,Z drag it tight and head across, once
there get the second to undo the Z drag then Z drag it tight again on the mainland side, once the
second is across, then undo the Z drag and pull the rope free, static is fine)
The belay at the top was a collection of antique pitons 5 or six different types that would get equalised
to form the anchor, and some that were pinning the No Parking sign in place, now thanks to the
tasmanian bolting pixies there is an exellent double bolt belay.
the old first pitch was desperate till the easy hand crack (no pins from memory, nuts cams) that gets
you onto the ledge, slimey, bouldery, old shity carrots, the works, but the new first pitch looks steller,
more direct, less sea grease/slime being on the more protected side of the tote, ie the side that
does'nt get hammered by the swell, and as such would be dryer and less slimey.
dont stress on the bolts they are fine! it takes a long time to rust a stainless bolt even in a marine
environment, thats what they were desighned for!, sheer load is safe even if the bolt is just sitting in a
hole with no glue or expansion, they both protect the bolt for outward forces, the bolts true strength lies
in its abillity to sustain sheer loading.
Relax, pick a good day, no swell, and get an early start or camp out there, its a long walk in.
Bring a dedicated photog to present a good trip report for us to enjoy, Have a good one.

M10iswhereitsat.
15/07/2007
6:04:07 PM
Thanx Bomber ! ... you STOOD on top ??... the mind spins with vertigo just imajinin it !!!

Sounds like the orig Free pitch is a witch , so Deep Play it is ...


>(trail a seperate fixed line from the mainland anchor to the top,Z drag it tight and head >across, once
>there get the second to undo the Z drag then Z drag it tight again on the mainland >side, once the
>second is across, then undo the Z drag and pull the rope free, static is fine)

>f---ed if I know all that stuff...


>The belay at the top was a collection of antique pitons 5 or six different types that >would get equalised
>to form the anchor, and some that were pinning the No Parking sign in place, now >thanks to the
>tasmanian bolting pixies there is an exellent double bolt belay.

I hope the heritage pegs are still there ...

>a 50m rope is fine, as there is a big belay ledge at half hight...

Yeah but , like it looks to me , that 2nd pitch looks fkn long !! , so if I fall off near the top , how can I lower to the belay ledge on a 50m rope ?
:(


... better not fall, eh ;-)

M10iswhereitsat.
15/07/2007
6:10:09 PM
On 15/07/2007 simey wrote:
>I think you are getting too hung up on every little aspect.

Yeah, I know what ur sayin, but...

When I get this feeling
It gets in ma system !
I cant put the breaks on !!
OOOOHHHH !!!
I cant help ma self ...
( Iva / Icehouse / Flowers )


>As for dynabolts, well I can only go on my experience and knowledge. I'm
>not aware of dynabolts failing in climbing situations. But I am aware of
>10mm dynabolts being overtorqued during placement and shearing. However
>the bolts I placed were 12mm bolts and I made a point of not overtorquing
>them. The hangers sit on the sleeve allowing the nut to be screwed on properly
>without being half-on like some poorly placed dynabolts I've seen.
>
>Static loads, shear loads... f---ed if I know all that stuff, but I would
>be quite happy to lob onto these babies. And they have been placed at regular
>intervals to provide back-up should something in the system fail unexpectedly.

Static means they are designed, eg , to bolt a piece of angle-iron onto a brick wall --- not have crazy climbers leaping out of the sky onto them and shearing them off at 90 degrees.

M10iswhereitsat.
15/07/2007
6:15:38 PM
>OK ... its a VERY long pitch !!! where is the ' Gr 24/25 ' crux ... what sort of grade is >most of the climbing on this pitch ... please ... ppl just rave about it being a great >pitch , but how physically/mentally hard is it ... the exposure looks >HORRENDOUS !!! ... and what if you fall high up ? obviously need a 70 metre rope to >red point it , yeah ...

I still would like to know more !!! ...please ... I spose I'm hoping its '... mostly grade 19 face/arete climbing , with one tecky, reachy move near the third bolt ...'

Did Monique snap a hold near the top, making it cruxy up there too ?
Onsight
15/07/2007
6:22:10 PM
On 15/07/2007 M10iswhereitsat. wrote:

>Anyone got any idea how many free ascents since 1995 ?
My guess a few dozen - and many more with a hang or two.

>Cheers again:-) The photo of Steve on the ' 95 1st pitch looks fkn desperate
>!! ... what grade is it around the corner, on the South face and up the
>crack (protected with fixed pegs, yeah ?) to the big belay ledge ?
It eases off considerably on the Dark Side... No pegs there, just cams.

Have fun!

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