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Fully sick bolt wars at Araps


ambyeok

19-May-2016
12:43:49 PM

On 19/05/2016 Macciza wrote:
>Me? I melt them down and reforge them as pitons ....

Don't lie, we know you forge them into carrots

hero

20-May-2016
11:20:42 AM

Stugang: "One billy goat with a smashed skull"

"But you rescue one goat ..."


ChuckNorris

20-May-2016
5:22:25 PM

On 20/05/2016 hero wrote:
>Stugang: "One billy goat with a smashed skull"
>
>"But you rescue one goat ..."

http://bigthink.com/big-think-tv/would-you-kill-baby-hitler

Jayford4321

20-May-2016
6:55:56 PM

On 20/05/2016 hero wrote:
>Stugang: "One billy goat with a smashed skull"
>
>"But you rescue one goat ..."

Hero U missed the obvious, that even blind eddy knows about.
The rescued goat was a nanny, and even ed knows what a nanny goat does when herded from the rear towards a skull smashing precipice.
In fact I think that even U 2 would back up.. and I think that U should congratUlate Stuey for his differentiation abilities.

hero

21-May-2016
10:18:07 AM

Sorry gnaguts - was not in favour of saving feral pest, merely alluding to a joke. Even the name of which my browser thinks is suspicious.

I kill babies all the time because of the chance they might grow into another Hitler.

Jayford4321

21-May-2016
12:43:53 PM

That suspicious stuff is good ay.
Nxt time U C stu ask him about his fav xvid links!
Sounds like both U an stuey wonder how ed made it this far in life given the perils of babydom.

Rawpowa!

23-May-2016
9:46:34 AM

I'm glad this is over, I was sitting at the Pines a few nights ago and someone was setting off thermobaric devices on the other side of the camp ground. It was like a war zone, I vividly remember seeing the look or terror on the singed faces of the bystanders as the burning pine needles rained down around them. There was a bit of shrapnel damage to some cars as well. I know people take this stuff seriously but there's no need to kill anyone.

Jayford4321

24-May-2016
4:00:15 PM

On 17/05/2016 widewetandslippery wrote:
>http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/eng/eft/eft19.htm
>
>I just thought this story was a good analogy to this thread.
>
>No I haven, t bred, while the dog and i sleep together we don, t do that
>sort of thing being monks and all, but he does like a good bedtime story.

Ur missing chloe uh?

kieranl

24-May-2016
9:43:08 PM

Yesterday afternoon I went up for a look at Master Blaster (look as in with eyes, not as in try to climb).

For a route that has sat in mossy obscurity for most of my life and has recently lost it's fixed gear, I got a bit of a surprise. You could just about mine the chalk on this. Have a bunch of people sudenly decided that this is the most attractive lead at the mount or has it just been top-roped to death in the last couple of weeks?

I attempted the start of Morfyne many years ago but it never occurred to me to try this but it now looks like it might not be a bad route, as long as you live (but then again, who does?).

I didn't see the bolts before they were removed but I can't see how they would be more visually intrusive than all the chalk that's caked on this. It'd be interested to know if people are actually leading it or not.

simey

24-May-2016
10:55:49 PM

On 24/05/2016 kieranl wrote:
>It'd be interested to know if people are actually leading it or not.

I must admit that I still find this saga pretty weird. I still think that Wendy's actions of retro-bolting a long forgotten route have more validity than those who have removed her bolts. If the bolt pullers had shown some initiative and climbed the route and extolled its virtues before Wendy arrived on the scene, then it would be a different story, but they didn't.

I don't have any personal experience with the route so I can't give an opinion regarding the natural protection and whether it suits the climb (or not) for ground-up attempts. But if most of the recent ascents are after top-rope rehearsal or rap inspection then I reckon the action of removing the bolts and claiming the high moral ground is very dubious.

Wendy

25-May-2016
8:05:10 AM

On 24/05/2016 kieranl wrote:
>Yesterday afternoon I went up for a look at Master Blaster (look as in
>with eyes, not as in try to climb).
>
>For a route that has sat in mossy obscurity for most of my life and has
>recently lost it's fixed gear, I got a bit of a surprise. You could just
>about mine the chalk on this. Have a bunch of people sudenly decided that
>this is the most attractive lead at the mount or has it just been top-roped
>to death in the last couple of weeks?
>
>I attempted the start of Morfyne many years ago but it never occurred
>to me to try this but it now looks like it might not be a bad route, as
>long as you live (but then again, who does?).
>
>I didn't see the bolts before they were removed but I can't see how they
>would be more visually intrusive than all the chalk that's caked on this.
>It'd be interested to know if people are actually leading it or not.

Do you mean the chalk on the layaways out right of the crack? That was there from the ethical debolter whose sequence goes up the layaways before I put the bolts in. I and the other ascent went up the crack.

I haven't been back there as it's way too cold for me and I'm waiting on a decision from Glenn (who's happy to go with consensus if such a thing is possible) and yet a few more consultations about the bolts. But there was a lot of chalk on the route before I got on it and the only people I am aware of climbing it were the well rehearsed ascents just before and just after the debacle, plus the original toproping session leading to the bolt discussion 6 months ago, so I'm guessing it's the same chalk. The chalk on the layaways was not there when I did Morphyne a few months ago, so I'm guessing it wasn't from the early toproping session before the ethical debolter. No one said there was consistency in ethics.

My understanding is that the specific concern is that there is a blue alien placement next to the piton therefore the piton shouldn't be replaced and I have taken the unforgivable action of bolting a trad route, dragging the cliff down to my level, ruining the experience of others and demonstrating my pitiful ethics, the list went on. I did look at the slot next to the piton and if you hadn't preinspected the route, you aren't going to find it. The experience of the first ascent was clipping a piece of fixed gear here so the experience of leading it ground up remains the same. No concern was expressed about the appearance of the bolts, and therefore I guess, the appearance of the chalk is not of concern either.

I have only received feedback since that I should go put the bolts back in.


rodw

25-May-2016
9:04:19 AM

On 25/05/2016 Wendy wrote:

>I have only received feedback since that I should go put the bolts back
>in.

I smell a bolt war coming on...Bluescope steel will be the only winner.

Wendy

25-May-2016
10:52:05 AM

On 25/05/2016 rodw wrote:
>On 25/05/2016 Wendy wrote:
>
>>I have only received feedback since that I should go put the bolts back
>>in.
>
>I smell a bolt war coming on...Bluescope steel will be the only winner.

That would be why I haven't just gone and put the bolts back in. Climbing has a long history of just reacting to things. Talking about things might not always reach a consensus but at least it doesn't involve stupid battles of bolts going in and out in the process.

widewetandslippery

25-May-2016
11:41:02 AM

Blue circle cement could do well out of it as well.

One Day Hero

25-May-2016
5:03:02 PM

On 24/05/2016 simey wrote:
>I must admit that I still find this saga pretty weird. I still think that
>Wendy's actions of retro-bolting a long forgotten route have more validity
>than those who have removed her bolts. If the bolt pullers had shown some
>initiative and climbed the route and extolled its virtues before Wendy
>arrived on the scene, then it would be a different story, but they didn't.

Nope, this lame logic could be applied all over the mount to retrobolt worthless routes which should just be left to the moss. What I don't get is why Wendy felt the need to retro this route, but not Copyright Direct which seems to have exactly the same gear situation (bouldery unprotected start followed by hard to place fiddley stuff). Why does every route have to be approachable ground up by a leader maxing at the grade? Is there a lack of good safe 25s at Araps?

The best bit of this thread is K man quoting Edward James Olmos

kieranl

25-May-2016
5:13:15 PM

On 25/05/2016 One Day Hero wrote:

>The best bit of this thread is K man quoting Edward James Olmos

Good to see that someone is awake.

martym

25-May-2016
5:18:48 PM

Bladerunner?

simey

25-May-2016
5:23:06 PM

On 25/05/2016 One Day Hero wrote:
>Nope, this lame logic could be applied all over the mount to retrobolt
>worthless routes which should just be left to the moss. What I don't get
>is why Wendy felt the need to retro this route, but not Copyright Direct
>which seems to have exactly the same gear situation (bouldery unprotected
>start followed by hard to place fiddley stuff).

Because Copyright Direct has had numerous ascents since it was established which is very different to Master Blaster which has been almost completely ignored.

Why does every route have
>to be approachable ground up by a leader maxing at the grade? Is there
>a lack of good safe 25s at Araps?

I am not arguing that every route be approachable ground-up by a leader maxing at the grade. I am just arguing that I hate rap-inspected and top-rope rehearsed boldness.

Wendy

25-May-2016
5:28:09 PM

On 25/05/2016 One Day Hero wrote:
>On 24/05/2016 simey wrote:
>>I must admit that I still find this saga pretty weird. I still think
>that
>>Wendy's actions of retro-bolting a long forgotten route have more validity
>>than those who have removed her bolts. If the bolt pullers had shown
>some
>>initiative and climbed the route and extolled its virtues before Wendy
>>arrived on the scene, then it would be a different story, but they didn't.
>
>Nope, this lame logic could be applied all over the mount to retrobolt
>worthless routes which should just be left to the moss. What I don't get
>is why Wendy felt the need to retro this route, but not Copyright Direct
>which seems to have exactly the same gear situation (bouldery unprotected
>start followed by hard to place fiddley stuff). Why does every route have
>to be approachable ground up by a leader maxing at the grade? Is there
>a lack of good safe 25s at Araps?

Um, because I knew other people had done Copyright Direct in the last 30 years? Because it didn't have existing fixed gear? And because I didn't have the first ascentionist saying he would like the route made more friendly?

I am not going around making every route approachable ground up by a leader maxing at the grade. I won't be going near any routes established ground up, getting repeats in their current condition and/or that the first ascentionist is passionate about keeping in their existing state. I have merely tried to make an obscure route something that people might actually climb and the most contentious thing I appear to have done is not protect a previously unprotected start but replace a piece of existing fixed gear.

Is there a lack of bold 25s at the mount either?


ChuckNorris

26-May-2016
9:37:40 PM

Firstly k-bomb before any views are expressed can you please stop associating a conservative approach to bolts with visual damage.

Secondly it seems with all the chalk a bunch of peeps are enjoying the route as is whether as a tr or a pre inspected lead - well done to the head pointers for opening this up for all to re-remember and enjoy.

So why bolt? You've got a world class classic 19 warm up next to it, stress free easy top rope at virtually same belay. So if you wanna do the climb you shouldn't care. Evidence is the piles of peeps who have built up the recent chalk don't care either.

Ohh you want to lead it?!??? But you've tr'd it and bolted it. Talk about flogging a dead one - why not just lead it with gear in situ? Who and why are you bolting it for? And saying that gt will go with the consensus is pretty disingenuous in a world where consensus is that peeps need an app to wipe their butt. (Ed pm me I'll send you the link).

Ps don't bring up Damian's goat saving hypocrisy.

There are 140 messages in this topic.