General Climbing Discussion

Author	Athlete or Model?
MisterGribble 29-Jan-2015 4:37:30 PM	She strikes me as the sort of maiden who'd have a selfie stick.....
kieranl 29-Jan-2015 5:11:25 PM	She's making a living by marketing her climbing, ergo a professional climber. A lot of professional climbers make their living out of marketing. In her case she's not marketing any world-class climbing achievements but her image as a climber. All sports, and life in general, abounds with people who make a living out of being brilliant at self-marketing as a sportsperson rather their actual achievements. To say that it's not fair on their more talented compatriots is just to rail against life at is. So, good on her.
martym 29-Jan-2015 5:14:08 PM	On 29/01/2015 Cliff wrote: >On 29/01/2015 Eduardo Slabofvic wrote: >>How is anything this woman is doing different to those 2 guys on Dawn >Wall? > >I can see your point. She's marketing how she looks; they are marketing >their climbing skills and achievements. her skill set is way stronger on >the self-marketing side. I reckon she earns more.
wallwombat 29-Jan-2015 6:22:26 PM	On 29/01/2015 kieranl wrote: >She's making a living by marketing her climbing, ergo a professional climber. >A lot of professional climbers make their living out of marketing. In her >case she's not marketing any world-class climbing achievements but her >image as a climber. > >All sports, and life in general, abounds with people who make a living >out of being brilliant at self-marketing as a sportsperson rather their >actual achievements. To say that it's not fair on their more talented compatriots >is just to rail against life at is. > >So, good on her. Yes, when you put it that way, I'd have to agree with you but I have never seen climbing as a sport. My climbing world has never really involved indoor climbing gyms or competitions or things like that. To me climbing is no more a sport than bushwalking or canyoning. I think that's why I still like climbing. I would be interested in an example of a sportsperson in another sport who makes a living out of being brilliant at self-marketing rather than their achievements in their chosen sport. Golfers still have to make the cut, Tennis players need to qualify, Footballers and cricketers still need to get picked in a team., etc... But, like I originally said, good on her. She's very good at what she does, even if it isn't climbing.
salty crag 29-Jan-2015 7:18:29 PM	Where's the female view on this..... come on girls.
ChuckNorris 29-Jan-2015 7:28:58 PM	Yawn. Simey has been doing this for years what's the big deal. As an aside ever since I read. .. no sorry. .."looked at that article"....I am getting Google ads for hot Russian brides not dissimilar looking to the lady in question.
Wendy 29-Jan-2015 8:35:23 PM	On 29/01/2015 salty crag wrote: >Where's the female view on this..... come on girls. > I've just done a late-early and haven't the brain function to put together a coherent sentence. Needless to say, I could have plenty to say about it later. But I might have to go climbing tomorrow first.
gordoste 29-Jan-2015 8:52:51 PM	There's diddly-squat money in female climbing comps. And I highly doubt that any female climber makes enough money from sponsorships to live an above-average lifestyle. Does anyone actually know how much money this young lady makes? I doubt it's more than a few K. Until rockclimbing is televised it won't be a serious money-maker, and nobody's found an audience-friendly format yet. If you want to see rockclimbers making serious $$ you should probably be encouraging this girl as she's bringing it into the mainstream consciousness. If you'd prefer it stay how it is now - well, all I'd say is that Tommy & Kevin aren't helping. Also remember that it is inevitable once there's serious $$ involved that rockclimbing will have to deal with drug cheats, and all sorts of other ethical issues which have been able to be ignored until now. Personally I am hoping that our sport is too "extreme" to be able to be sold to the masses.
Wendy 29-Jan-2015 9:33:22 PM	Ok, I'm too opinionated to let a little exhaustion get in the way of a good rant ... On the one hand, I’m not going to object to any women promoting that they are fit and strong. On the other hand, it’s unfortunate that to get this sort of publicity, they also have to be gorgeous, smiling and putting themselves out to the male gaze at the same time. Far from making climbing seem more accessible by climbing lesser grades than the top of the field, I think it presents an even more unattainable image. For the non climber, it all still looks impossible. V0 looks pretty bloody impossible to most people. Even for the rest of us, how many of us are sending V7? I haven’t. Then on top of still unrealistic achievements for your average dogsbody, we also have to look gorgeous whilst doing it. I seem to have missed the bit where going climbing meant putting your face on. What a pain it must be though, having to make yourself look like that each morning just to go for a climb. Looking like that doesn’t come effortlessly, and I’ll bet she works hard at achieving that look. Make up, hair, depilation, clothing, not to mention diet and exercise … I don’t know how women find the time or energy for it all. I struggle to throw my dreads in piggy tail and stagger out the door. I’m not dissing what she does per se, she climbs perfectly respectable grades, she’s found a way to market herself that’s obviously found a niche, she’s also at uni full time, it’s all a truckload of work and I wouldn’t bloody do it. But I do have a problem with a culture that asks for this stuff. It doesn’t reward women for get dirty and sweaty, for looking like they just spent the day (or week or month) on the cliff, for battling and grimacing. You can’t just be an ordinary woman. Or even an ordinary woman doing extraordinary things. Or a gorgeous woman in your own way. You have to be a gorgeous woman willing to present yourself in a certain way doing extraordinary things. It makes me wonder how super does superwoman have to be in this world? I also read an article about “bikini class” bodybuilders the other day and the rigmarole around their appearance on top of all their training was ridiculous. They too are marketed as the “achievable” end of bodybuilding which is just laughable. And because they also rely on social media for their following, they can’t leave the house without being all hotted up because someone might take a photo, bung it on Instagram and ruin their image. It all sounds like a recipe for misery to me. And then I want to know, where are the male “athlete-models”? Sure, I admit I think Alex Honnold has gorgeous eyes. Most good climbers have a body worth admiring as well. I do my fair share of gawping. But where are the men marketing themselves to the female gaze in this way? Where are the sponsors paying them to sell their appearance over their achievements? Where are the men putting appearance maintenance into their training schedule? Having to dress themselves up even to run to the corner store? There is a substantial difference here. Then there’s also a long discussion to be had about women participating in their own objectification and what is free choice in all of that, but really, I havn’t eaten enough chocolate for all of that right now.
Wendy 29-Jan-2015 9:35:18 PM	http://www.rockandice.com/lates-news/tnb-a-short-talk-with-sierra-blair-coyle?fb_action_ids=10152748602508931&fb_action_types=og.comments http://www.sierrabc.com/ and in case you want further tangents http://www.buzzfeed.com/ashapiro009/training-tanning-and-branding-with-the-bikini-bodybuilding-s?utm_term=.pheJb4nMY#.dsQ4OldGJY
One Day Hero 29-Jan-2015 9:45:34 PM	On 29/01/2015 wallwombat wrote: >I think Bishharat's point is she defines herself as a "professional climber", >when there are really talented climbers out there who have to juggle work >with climbing and don't have the luxury to be able to call themselves pro >climbers. So fuching what? Are you some sort of commie, who believes that anyone with an obscure talent should be supported by the state to pursue whatever unprofitable crap they happen to be o.c.d. about? Good climbers can't make money because watching climbing is boring as fuch. Ergo, no market, no tv, no dollars, no pro's, economic reality, deal with it. I would way rather see photos of this chick bouldering a v5 than some skinny little dude on a v15.........because she has a great arse, and I reckon you guys are talking her talent down. That isn't some run of the mill, every day arse. The girl has serious arse-talent, and if she has the committment to pursue a career providing spank-fodder to a bunch of middle aged shit climbers who are too useless to even cruise for proper porn, well good luck to her.
BoulderBaby 29-Jan-2015 11:02:55 PM	When we've got rad climber chicks like Puccio, Shauna, Mina LW, Sacha - chicks who climb hard, and push boundaries (and lead normal lives - Sasha is Uni and still crushing!) SBC doesn't really fall on my radar as a climber chick to aspire to. Is SBC a professional climber? Does being a professional climber mean your income comes from your ascents? or how many modelling jobs/photo shoots for you take? Either way all of this is publicity, for her, for climbing, for sponsors. Isn't it all win win??
The good Dr 30-Jan-2015 7:53:03 AM	With respect to the marketing and the assumption by Wendy that this womans marketing is ... 'smiling and putting themselves out to the male gaze at the same time' ... you are missing a salient point. She is sponsered by a number of clothing manufacturers etc. They are not aiming at the male market, the actual target is the female market and the female response to the presentation of the 'athlete-model'. The question that needs to be asked is why women need to be marketed to in that fashion (and often driven by women within the industry). This also answers why there are less male 'athlete-models' as they are a less effective marketing tool to men.
Wendy 30-Jan-2015 8:37:27 AM	On 30/01/2015 The good Dr wrote: >With respect to the marketing and the assumption by Wendy that this womans >marketing is ... 'smiling and putting themselves out to the male gaze at >the same time' ... you are missing a salient point. She is sponsered by >a number of clothing manufacturers etc. They are not aiming at the male >market, the actual target is the female market and the female response >to the presentation of the 'athlete-model'. The question that needs to >be asked is why women need to be marketed to in that fashion (and often >driven by women within the industry). This also answers why there are less >male 'athlete-models' as they are a less effective marketing tool to men. It's not at all disconnected. People says SBC looks hot. Our culture likes women to look hot. A gazillion teenage girls are hoping they too can look that hot in Roxy hotpants. Women's identities remain bound up in appearance. It still all relates to male gaze. Who are actually her followers on social media? A gazillion blokes. See Damo's post. She's also sponsored by 3 climbing companies, a sunglasses and a bodybuilding supplement company. They aren't specifically marketing to women. They are just getting their brand name over a bunch of photos that will be seen cause men are gawping at them and they are raising some controversy. In brief and simplified form, people participate in the construction of discourses: they buy, sell, reflect and replicate them, they aren't just top down messages. That's what makes them so powerful. In this particular case, one that we value women for being hot (with a slight increase in being intelligent and fit, but only if it doesn't interfere with the hot bit) and men for being strong, bold, powerful, capable etc etc. What particularly disturbs me is that somehow people keep buying into the appearance side, such that men are now copping a bit of it and women are expected to be superwomen. I still haven't had enough chocolate.
martym 30-Jan-2015 11:30:36 AM	What's gawping? How is what she does any different to any other modeling? Look at the Kathmandu ads where people are "out there" looking like they just stepped out of a make up trailer... Or those Petzl ads with naked climbers... No one ares what grades those models are climbing (if they climb at all) The question, are you a "climber or a model" is ridiculous. Are you an IT professional or a climber? Are you a semi-professional snooker player or a part time TV extra or a waitress?
gfdonc 30-Jan-2015 11:53:02 AM	On 30/01/2015 Cliff wrote: >From her twitter/whatever... she can't trad, and seems she's never climbed >outside the US. Err .. placed second in the first comp she entered in England. And last I heard, Toronto was not part of the US. Seems maybe she can climb despite being good-looking? Just sayin'.... >And not to diss her ability... but to do one v9 and call >yourself a v9 climber is just wrong. Anyone can cherry-pick a route four >grades harder than their OS, dog it to submission over days/weeks/months, >and get the tick. Wow! Really? I must try it sometime. I'll let you know how it goes. But I suspect no amount of dogging or posing is going to get me up a V9.
shortman 30-Jan-2015 11:59:31 AM	On 30/01/2015 Cliff wrote: > >Point taken, but there's something about what she's doing that obviously >pisses lots of people off. Really?
Wendy 30-Jan-2015 12:02:43 PM	On 30/01/2015 martym wrote: >What's gawping? What's google? https://www.google.com.au/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&rlz=1C1LENP_enAU530AU530&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=definition%20gawping > >How is what she does any different to any other modeling? >Look at the Kathmandu ads where people are "out there" looking like they >just stepped out of a make up trailer... Or those Petzl ads with naked >climbers... No one ares what grades those models are climbing (if they >climb at all) Did I at any point mention I was ok with modelling in general? One of my pet peeves is how come women all have to be beautiful. Even as people try and extend the range of what is acceptable for women, we just move on to women can be fat and beautiful. Intelligent and beautiful. Strong and beautiful. Talented and beautiful. Women of colour are beautiful. Really, what is wrong with just being happy, healthy, smart, capable, generous, caring, fit, interesting or whatever....
shortman 30-Jan-2015 1:24:30 PM	On 30/01/2015 Cliff wrote: >EDIT > >Her web site says that she's been competing professionally since she was >14... its just a joke... What is the joke Cliff?
shortman 30-Jan-2015 1:25:04 PM	On 30/01/2015 Cliff wrote: >On 30/01/2015 shortman wrote: >>On 30/01/2015 Cliff wrote: >>> >>>Point taken, but there's something about what she's doing that obviously >>>pisses lots of people off. >> >>Really? > >Don't you need to check the deep fat fryer? :) Surely this was not the joke?

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