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New Climbing Gym In Coburg

Karl Bromelow

22-Jun-2015
8:43:15 AM

On 21/06/2015 Sabu wrote:
>For me Bayside has it right in terms of layout. A set area for kids and
>their endless parties while keeping the ropes free at the business end
>for the more serious climbers. They literally pen the kids up in a cage
>to climb by themselves. I always appreciate that no matter how busy they
>may be it pretty much never affects my session.

All good except for the restrictive regulations regarding leading, particularly for serious younger climbers. Much too much emphasis given to top roping.

Karl Bromelow

22-Jun-2015
9:20:22 AM

On 21/06/2015 phillipivan wrote:
>Especially important in Austria, where those little tackers are probably
>climbing a half dozen odd grades harder than you, or I, or anyone else.

http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=69798

14 years old, 9a.


rodw

22-Jun-2015
10:22:36 AM

I personally prefer top roping in gyms, really don't see the point with leading in gyms...prefer to just jump on and go and save leading for outside....just get more climbing done on top rope and really don't see what the added benefit is gained form leading same climbs...clipping a fixed draw isn't exactly a master skill.

Main thing that makes a good gym is new routes being set all the time..nothing worse than a gym with month to year old routes that never change

gfdonc

22-Jun-2015
11:31:21 AM

More lead routes. Outdoor walls equipped for BYO draws. Beer Garden. It's all here:
http://www.kbthalkirchen.de/

ldshield

22-Jun-2015
4:02:52 PM

I don't know a heap about the economics of the outdoor industry, but I suspect that a climbing gym focussed solely on 'high-end' climbers would sooner or later go broke. (For the purposes of the exercise let's say that 'high-end climbers' are, say, people who can lead and/or top-rope grade 20 and over). High-end climbers are probably regulars, and no doubt support gyms a lot, but I doubt it's a sufficiently large community by itself to support five or six gyms across Melbourne. It's probably school groups during the day (when most of us never see them) and children's birrthday parties on weekends that keep that many gyms solvent. If gyms focused solely on 'higher-end' climbing they'd be more expensive and there'd be fewer of them (and thus harder for many of us to get to). Having easier indoor climbs also helps introduce more people, particular younger people, to the sport. That benefits all of us through a better range of better-priced gear and more people to climb with; we don't want indoor climbing to become an obscure niche activity like curling, croquet, or trugo. [Disclaimer: I am a terrible climber and if I've finished a 13 I consider it a successful outing].

I agree strongly that at least some of the staff should actually be qualified climbers. I always get a little nervous when I reflect on the likelihood (or otherwise) of timely professional assistance if I got snagged halfway up a climb for some reason.

I think individual routes should be there for long enough that you have an opportunity to work on them to improve. There are one or two at Hard Rock that I have worked on as small projects, and knowing how long I had to complete the project would be good. It would be awful to be nearly finished something you'd been working on for a while, and then come in one day to find that the route had been reset. If there's going to be frequent route changes, I think having a clear expiry date would be nice.

My personal request would be for one or two routes which have really big, easy holds all the way to the top, like a ladder. One reason I climb is to address my fear of heights, and the quicker I can get up high without needing great technique the better. I have no idea how realistic it is, but in winter an area for dry-tooling (or some simulation thereof) might also be nice.

Speaking of ladders, I really love the climbing rope and rope ladder at Cliffhanger. The last thing my wife and I do before going home at the end of a Cliffhanger outing is always climb the ladder to see how high we can get. Having things that require climbing but are not actually a climbing route with holds, such as free-hanging ropes, ladders, or maybe something with climbable shelves protruding from the wall, would add interest and variety.

Karl Bromelow

22-Jun-2015
7:03:27 PM

On 22/06/2015 rodw wrote:
>I personally prefer top roping in gyms, really don't see the point with
>leading in gyms...

I totally respect your right to a difference of opinion Rod but was a bit curious about your thoughts that leading indoors seems pointless to you. So I took the liberty of looking at your profile and saw this post of yours, "I never really enjoyed trad, to much faffing about for me" on another thread.

Suffice it to say you are quite a different type of climber to the ones I have hung out with over the last 30 odd years.

No disrespect but I think therein lies our difference of opinion. I do believe that being on the pointy end of the rope teaches you something every time you do it. Be it indoors, outdoors, trad or sport and however many times you climb the route, as long as the route is something of a physical challenge to you.

Dave_S

22-Jun-2015
7:22:00 PM

On 22/06/2015 Karl Bromelow wrote:
>No disrespect but I think therein lies our difference of opinion. I do
>believe that being on the pointy end of the rope teaches you something
>every time you do it.

There was a quote in Arapiles Selected Climbs that seems relevant to this, along the lines of, "As far as I'm concerned if someone can eliminate the mental aspect of climbing, we might as well just play lawn bowls."

Karl Bromelow

22-Jun-2015
8:49:09 PM

On 22/06/2015 Dave_S wrote:
>
>There was a quote in Arapiles Selected Climbs that seems relevant to this,
>along the lines of, "As far as I'm concerned if someone can eliminate the
>mental aspect of climbing, we might as well just play lawn bowls."

Thanks for that Dave. Add techno background music, singlets, clif bars and triple the weight of the bowls and you've got indoor top roping. Only kidding. Each to their own, but I really feel like leading is the very soul of rock climbing, and in the fairly soulless, by comparison, environment of a "good" indoor wall every effort should be made to hang on to whatever elements we can. More leading. Less of whatever fear and regulation inhibits this.


rodw

22-Jun-2015
9:11:24 PM

On 22/06/2015 Karl Bromelow wrote:

>No disrespect but I think therein lies our difference of opinion. I do
>believe that being on the pointy end of the rope teaches you something
>every time you do it.

None taken just giving my opinion on what I like in a gym but also disagree with you in the leading in gym teaches you much ..but then Im only a new climber whos only been climbing for 20 odd years :)....if you get something out of it, do it i say.

Karl Bromelow

22-Jun-2015
9:46:39 PM

On 22/06/2015 rodw wrote:
>On 22/06/2015 Karl Bromelow
>
>None taken just giving my opinion on what I like in a gym but also disagree
>with you in the leading in gym teaches you much ..but then Im only a new
>climber whos only been climbing for 20 odd years :)....if you get something
>out of it, do it i say.

Ha! Fair enough Rod. Nice to have a civilised disagreement on the web. All the best mate. Keep doing it whatever way lights your fire. Cheers, Karl.

martym

23-Jun-2015
12:12:52 AM

>On 21/06/2015 Cliff wrote:
>>I'm curious what others think makes a decent gym. Anyone want to offer
>>their thoughts on what makes a world standard gym;

One where everyone in the world of all ages (not just 4 & up) can climb in harmony ;)

All those kids that lead climbers are dodging are subsidising your awesome climbing gyms.. & pity the jealous parents watching you climb!

maxdacat

23-Jun-2015
8:15:08 AM

Very admirable to open a new gym in this country so here are some of my thought about what makes a good un:

- decent mats....not those horrible squishy ankle breakers some places choose
- solid panels....i've climbed on a few flimsy ones here in Oz - it shouldn't be that hard to get a decent width of ply or Entreprise type panels
- bright, distinct holds! with a limit to the number of problems/routes on each section
- a system board/school room setup please!
- a limit on the number of techy, cruxy routes/probs - i don't go to the wall to train technique, I am happy climbing on 1-2 pad continuous PE type routes

dalai

23-Jun-2015
2:05:56 PM

On 23/06/2015 Cliff wrote:
> With luck, the owners of Coburg gym can figure out how to avoid parties and still
>make a buck while charging reasonable fees. We'll see.

Dream on Cliff. Such a utopia doesn't exist...

(removed)

23-Jun-2015
3:04:22 PM

It's the stated intent of the new owners of Altona to focus more on kids parties, which is a shame - they have the single best gym wall in the state (country ?) and yet some of the routes are 10+ years old. The shame is that the owners don't see value in (a) high quality routes (i.e. thought provoking - Hardrock does a better job here) and frequent rotation.

Edit to state that I don't see many (any ?) top end climbers here presumably because of the lack of route rotation.

timbigot

23-Jun-2015
4:21:15 PM

I agree with rodw on this one,I can't really see the point or really the pointy end of indoor leading and find that people leading get in the way of me and my kids top roping. Though I do like the idea of the coburg location as i'm pretty lazy. Frequently changing, non finger inuring pump fests are what i'm after. A water fountain would be nice and cut price jelly snakes for top out bribes.

dalai

23-Jun-2015
5:04:49 PM

On 23/06/2015 Cliff wrote:
>That's not like you to be so pessimistic Martin :) Reasonable prices and
>no parties is far from a utopian vision for a climbing facility.

Realism from years working in a gym...

Perhaps since then the sport has been yuppified so climbers are more likely to spend money to train? Back in my time the 'real' climbers tried every possible way of trying to get in for as little as possible. You didn't make money from these guys, it was the daytime school groups, night time scout groups and weekend birthdays that made the money...

peteclimbs

23-Jun-2015
5:14:31 PM

>I agree with rodw on this one,I can't really see the point or really the pointy end of indoor leading.

I can't really see the pointy end of over-bolted outdoor routes either. For me, I lead in the gym because it allows me to climb steep stuff (try TRing the roof at Nunna), it gets me away from the hordes of top ropers and, as the routes get harder and the act of clipping becomes an additional difficultly in itself, it allows me to train that side of things well. Barrelling up a route on your limit on TR, blissfully ignorant of the need to find a stance, lock off, clip, proceed, repeat - well that's fine, but some of those elements are nice to train for both climber and belayer.

As for a wish list from the Coburg gym, in order of importance for me:

Space - Hardrock in the city is dangerous most evenings
Interesting and regularly reset routes
Sound proof cage for kids (a la Bayside)
Training/stretching area
Change rooms/toilets that aren't tiny and (often) feral

timbigot

23-Jun-2015
5:36:03 PM

Both fair points top roping the really steep stuff doesn't work well, it's probably more a problem of recent trips to the city in the evening being so crowded that adding the extra ropes and complication of leading in between people top roping seems unnecessary.


Eduardo Slabofvic

23-Jun-2015
5:58:49 PM

On 23/06/2015 dalai wrote:
>On 23/06/2015 Cliff wrote:
it was the daytime school groups, night time
>scout groups and weekend birthdays that made the money...

That's the same with any gym. Try managing a swimming pool and gym. Pools are big holes in the ground that you pour money into. You need the group fitness room to bring in the money to pour into the pool.

dicky

11-Nov-2015
1:17:28 PM

Not sure where you got that one but i can tell you it is not the case. The new owner has spent more money and effort on getting the gym back in to shape after a lot of neglect that the previous owners combined. It is not his stated aim to preferance kids partys . And he is also very receptive to feedback so may i suggest that if you want anything to change or to have meaningfull input that you either email the gym direct or fill out a feedback form at the counter.
Agree the gym has great walls but there is a load of work to do there a lot of it you will not even notice
But things are being worked on it just takes time.

There are 54 messages in this topic.