General Climbing Discussion

Author	WTF at Point Perpendicular!
kieranl 10-Oct-2014 10:12:38 AM	I really prefer the advertising slogan that never quite made it to Australia for a now-defunct word-processing company : "Wang Cares"
Climboholic 10-Oct-2014 10:13:22 AM	On 10/10/2014 tnd wrote: >On 10/10/2014 Climboholic wrote: >>... >>As ODH would say, Fuch you Neil! Even in combat it's reasonable to expect >>everything possible is done to minimise the risk of Australian lives. > >So Australian lives are more valuable than other lives? ! We're talking about bolts on ADF land. The A stands for Australia. > >>This type of comment shows an utter lack of respect for those who serve >Australia >>and ignorance to the necessary role of the military. > >I have zero respect for the military and the increasing militarism in >Australian society. Here's what I think. Little of what they do is necessary. >Fcuk them. Yet they continue to serve you and every other Australian anyway. Your comment says a lot more about you than them. Try googling Edmund Burke, he once said something about evil and doing nothing.
One Day Hero 10-Oct-2014 11:07:55 AM	On 10/10/2014 jprockbelly wrote: >Climbers are obsessed with bolts, which is a good thing in my opinion. >But only really relevant to climbers. For park managers, and the environment, >bolts are a minor issue. The much bigger concern is all the off track walking >(which causes erosion and spread of exotic species), litter, food scraps, >feces etc. > So, how does this all relate to the area in question (top of Rex Hunt's)? Climbers drive, park, and walk in as for all the other visitors, jump the lighthouse fence onto bare rock, walk 20m on bare rock, then abseil over the rock cliff edge down to a ledge which is nicely padded with construction refuse, then climb back up on the rock. What frigging environmental damage could you possibly be talking about? I don't see any grogans lying around on the ledge, the vegetation down on the ledge is looking fine, I've never seen any climbers molesting a sea eagle.........I do inadvertently kill the spiders living in mono-pockets, is that it? I'm not saying that climbers have zero environmental impact, but at that crag I would suggest that it's pretty minimal. And is there somehow going to be less impact caused by trooping a bunch of navy dudes down there to abseil off the shiny new bolts?
Wendy 10-Oct-2014 11:16:04 AM	How do the trooping bunch get out again? Surely they aren't all able to climb out?
One Day Hero 10-Oct-2014 11:21:16 AM	On 10/10/2014 jprockbelly wrote: >10 extra bolts (or 100 for that >matter) have an environmental footprint measured in square cm. They can >be an eyesore (nowhere near as bad a chalk) but their actual impact on >the environment is minimal. Why bring chalk into it? There's nowhere at the Point where chalk remains after a good rainstorm. All the chalk in the world is only a temporary eyesore at that crag. And also, you're playing a bit of a stupid "environment trumps everything" card. As well as bolting, you could also add metal rungs to every route, or chip huge jugs, or fill in all the pockets so the climbs are impossible.....none of these things would amount to serious environmental damage, but would fuch the cliff for climbers, so it's in our interests for those things not to happen, right?
One Day Hero 10-Oct-2014 11:22:17 AM	On 10/10/2014 Wendy wrote: >How do the trooping bunch get out again? Surely they aren't all able to >climb out? Rick told me, but I've forgotten. Maybe caving ladders?
ropedonkey 10-Oct-2014 11:29:35 AM	What they were doing is rapping off over northern exposure and a rope had been tethered around the bottom on carrots to make it safe to walk round the bottom then caving ladders back up...
One Day Hero 10-Oct-2014 11:32:28 AM	On 9/10/2014 rodw wrote: >Wow I didn't realise your were such an authority ...my bad...but I'm guessing >when you place said bolts you do it to a certain code and more than likely >would be considered overkill to what you would do recreationally? You're guessing wrong, because you're a retard. Like most construction things, there's the minimal safe install (if the client is a tightarse), there's the sensible install (which makes life easier for the people using the system), and then there's the piss-take install, where you plug in as much shit as you can get away with and charge per anchor (usually found on buildings operated by bloated government departments.....like, say, defense).
rodw 10-Oct-2014 11:49:08 AM	Your wisdom as ever is unquestionable ODH as is your obvious extensive use of the English lexion to get your point across without name calling......I tip my hat to you once again.
jprockbelly 10-Oct-2014 12:04:07 PM	On 10/10/2014 One Day Hero wrote: >So, how does this all relate to the area in question (top of Rex Hunt's)? Not much I must admit. They were general comments National Parks in general and the priority for their management. My comments were really in response to this >pulling bolts out might be a good way to start a dialogue >regarding whether it really is ok for the navy to retrobolt whatever they want. and this >I think we are a pretty good fuching authority on what is best. >Have you dipshits even seen the galvo U-bolts the navy drilled in? Not exactly very smart. I agree that the navy should have used existing bolts or natural gear (surely learning to use gear is going to be a more widely applicable skill than clipping bolts?). And obviously you are passionate and care about climbing, both commendable things. But you seem to have mistaken your passion for authority. Chopping park approved bolts under the guise of being "a pretty fuching good authority" will not start a dialogue. It will make park management nervous, and give them yet another reason to not like climbers. Re: chalk, all I'm trying to do is point out that from a non climbers point of view bolts are actually a minor issue. I think discussion of over bolting is a very valid thing. We just need to be mindful that the rest of the world does not have the same mania about a small piece of metal placed in rock that we do. If you think it's an issue raise it with parks (http://www.nationalparks.nsw.gov.au/about/contact). I feel that making you own assessment and acting on it without consultation will not end well for climbers And apologies in advance for being a retarded, shit-for-brains, dip shit etc.
The good Dr 10-Oct-2014 12:36:29 PM	1. The ADF manage the land and access to it, including access for recreational climbing. 2. The ADF are using the cliff for training purposes. 3. The ADF install some anchors for that purpose and with a particular internal specification for the anchor installation known only by them. Making any assumption regarding the why and where is fraught. The various anchors may have been installed to provide training examples or assess longevity etc. 4. Someone decides to remove some of these anchors without adequate research as to their origin. 5. People on Chockstone start argueing about it as if it is a recreational climbing based issue (which it clearly is not). 6. The ramifications of the anchor removal actions is as yet unknown, particularly the response of the land managers. Hopefully some of the climbing representatives who are in regular contact with the ADF at Point Perp are having discussions about the anchor removal. I hope that there is no particular fallout from the anchor removal. Before weilding the axe, careful research by bolt choppers should be undertaken prior to taking action regardless of the por/con side of the recreational climbing bolting argument. An apology from the person(s) involved, either directly or through an intermediary, may be appropriate as their actions were based on false assumptions regarding the installed anchors. PS: Damo, there are plenty of people who install anchors for a living who have absolutely no idea what they are doing. We see it regularly on sites all over the place. They would all claim to be 'experts'. Installing an anchor does not mean that you understand all of the design, engineering and usage requirements.
lacto 10-Oct-2014 1:00:25 PM	Watch out for the ADF Airforce just blew up $400 M worth of missles that were procured for the F111 ,that were to be available for the Last 10 years of the F111 service life , unfortunately they were only available for the last year of their time frame No longer any use so blow them up !!
One Day Hero 10-Oct-2014 1:05:27 PM	>PS: Damo, there are plenty of people who install anchors for a living >who have absolutely no idea what they are doing. We see it regularly on >sites all over the place. They would all claim to be 'experts'. Installing >an anchor does not mean that you understand all of the design, engineering >and usage requirements. > The usage is they're abseiling off a cliff, mate. There are at least three generations of navy bolts in the one area, it isn't a single carefully designed system, one set is glued in gal. I'm going to go ahead and call bullshit on this install. If you would like to fly up and offer your professional opinion after actually looking at what they've done, that'd be great. Also, bolting buildings isn't as difficult as you're making it out to be. I understand that you kind of need to make it sound like it is, since the business relies to a certain degree on scaring building managers :)
PDRM 10-Oct-2014 1:39:04 PM	On 10/10/2014 Cliff wrote: >>Try googling Edmund Burke, he once said something about evil and doing >>nothing. > >It wasn't Burke who said that. Charles F. Aked
dalai 10-Oct-2014 4:42:50 PM	ODH - please stop the personal abuse. Won't help you push your message when you are enjoying another time out... *And I don't want to do this as I support your premise that there has been a large increase in sport route bolting in areas such as Point Perp which were developed originally under a mixed gear ethic.
One Day Hero 10-Oct-2014 6:52:01 PM	On 10/10/2014 dalai wrote: >ODH - please stop the personal abuse. Won't help you push your message >when you are enjoying another time out... Sorry Dalai, old habits and all that. How's your climbing comeback going?
IdratherbeclimbingM9 10-Oct-2014 7:30:17 PM	On 9/10/2014 Olbert wrote: >On 9/10/2014 nmonteith wrote: >>I always find the concept of workplace health and safety and the military >>a funny one. > >The point (Hah!), which is lost a lot of the time, is that the military >only likes to be in danger when in a combat situation. People shouldn't >die training just because they might die in combat in the future. > >Not that putting 10 bolts in a small area should be considered 'best practice'. Hiphophooray foreeza jollygood poster anallthatstuff! ~> Another Chocky ID achieves the 1,000 post milestone!!
dalai 10-Oct-2014 8:48:05 PM	On 10/10/2014 One Day Hero wrote: >Sorry Dalai, old habits and all that. How's your climbing comeback going? Been looking at actually going out and bumbling up some single digit routes this summer! :-) Unfortunately still undergoing physio due to my crash and collarbone plating in April. Have been suffering from a frozen shoulder due to the impact and being immobilized for 10 weeks before and after surgery means range of motion is only around 85%... Still can't lift my arm fully above my head plus internal and external rotation of the rotator cuff is as you would say fuched, hence the idea of sticking to the low grades where I can keep most of my weight on my feet!
Doug 11-Oct-2014 12:20:42 AM	On 10/10/2014 dalai wrote: >Unfortunately still undergoing physio due to my crash and collarbone plating >in April. Have been suffering from a frozen shoulder due to the impact >and being immobilized for 10 weeks before and after surgery means range >of motion is only around 85%... Still can't lift my arm fully above my >head plus internal and external rotation of the rotator cuff is as you >would say fuched, hence the idea of sticking to the low grades where I >can keep most of my weight on my feet! Sorry to hear about your crash, dalai. But. as Eric says, "always look on the bright side of life": http://youtu.be/jHPOzQzk9Qo "85%" sounds like you're still working towards something approaching 100%. Here's hoping that you are at least finding interesting challenges where you "can keep most of the weight" on your feet. Mind you, it doesn't mean that you need to climb at the lower grades. There is always the Hall of Mirrors ... http://www.mountainproject.com/v/hall-of-mirrors/109538712 All the best in your continuing recovery. Cheers Doug
OodlesDownHere 11-Oct-2014 8:23:27 AM	On 10/10/2014 The good Dr wrote: >1. The ADF manage the land and access to it, including access for recreational >climbing. >2. The ADF are using the cliff for training purposes. >3. The ADF install some anchors for that purpose and with a particular >internal specification for the anchor installation known only by them. >Making any assumption regarding the why and where is fraught. The various >anchors may have been installed to provide training examples or assess >longevity etc. >4. Someone decides to remove some of these anchors without adequate research >as to their origin. >5. People on Chockstone start argueing about it as if it is a recreational >climbing based issue (which it clearly is not). >6. The ramifications of the anchor removal actions is as yet unknown, >particularly the response of the land managers. Imagin some half witted dirtbag came onto your property and decided ya house was unenviramental and choped it. Would you be upset and wanna kill the stoopid fuka?

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