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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

 Page 3 of 7. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 100 | 101 to 120 | 121 to 127
Author
Mt Arapiles - Camping fee booking changes 1st July
Stingray4100
28/06/2014
9:52:49 AM
On 28/06/2014 Karl Bromelow wrote:
>For those of us who prefer to have an outdoor experience in this so-called
>"outdoorsy" nation does this extraordinary hike in price for camping (certainly
>not "affordable" for all) only go to subsidise the camping facilities (where
>they even exist) or will a percentage go towards subsidising the indoor
> "roofed" accommodation that we might choose to go without?
>
>Also, what organised protest at the scale of these price increases has
>been mounted to show the obvious displeasure of many in the real outdoor
>community?
>
>And I come back to my feeling that as a special interest group (climbers
>and wild campers) we have little if any lobby power and barely any understanding
>amongst the wider community in Australia.
>

I highly doubt that ANY of the (additional) revenue raised will be directed to improving camping facilities - particularly any improvements that might be useful to climbers and wild campers. After all, what improvements does this group actually need? Personally, I don't need any more shelters, BBQ's, signs or graded flat areas - I come to the bush to get away from all of this sort of stuff - most people do, including car based campers.

Any money that actually gets spent on 'improvements' will mostly benefit day walkers and picnic-ers - the group that's not actually paying anything. Most of the money appears to be slated for an upgraded website and booking system which wouldn't be needed if the charges were reasonable in the first place.

The way I see it, campers are being made to pay to fund infrastructure for tourists who stay in Halls Gap in luxury motels and apartments. My tin foil hat is buzzing...

You're right - climbers and wild campers are a very small minority of the total national park user group, that's why it's so easy to raise the costs, we don't have a large voice and the increases have gone largely unnoticed by Joe Public.

I had my protest by sending in a response to the RIS. It was duly ignored as expected. I've read that the 4X4 community contributed a large response to the RIS, as did a number of bushwalking clubs - it really was a waste of time, because the conclusion was foregone.

We all know that prices never come down, lobbying seems futile. About the only way that I can see change occurring now is if revenue actually falls because of these new charges.
kieranl
28/06/2014
10:17:36 AM
On 28/06/2014 Stingray4100 wrote:
>We all know that prices never come down, lobbying seems futile. About
>the only way that I can see change occurring now is if revenue actually
>falls because of these new charges.

There is also a State election due in November. Now is the time to start lobbying your local candidates to roll back the fees in the Grampians and similar parks to an equitable level.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
28/06/2014
10:21:37 AM
On 28/06/2014 Karl Bromelow wrote:
>does this extraordinary hike in price for camping (certainly
>not "affordable" for all) only go to subsidise the camping facilities (where
>they even exist) or will a percentage go towards subsidising the indoor
> "roofed" accommodation that we might choose to go without?

Tracey supplied most of the answer to that, in the link.
>On 27/06/2014 access t cliffcare wrote:
>http://parkweb.vic.gov.au/visit/book-your-stay/changes-to-camping-and-accommodation-fees

~> Like Stingray4100...
>My tin foil hat is buzzing... !
... as the amount of propaganda / cliche / patronising, within that linked bit of info, was sickening to me when I read it.

>Also, what organised protest at the scale of these price increases has
>been mounted to show the obvious displeasure of many in the real outdoor
>community?
>
So when are we going to talk to the other interest groups affected, and consolidate a concerted response?
It is either that, or an anarchistic approach??

Post edit:
kieranl beat me to it, in terms of a good response; i.e. lobbying our local members re the upcoming election.
patto
28/06/2014
2:21:02 PM
On 28/06/2014 Karl Bromelow wrote:
>Also, what organised protest at the scale of these price increases has
>been mounted to show the obvious displeasure of many in the real outdoor
>community?
>
>And I come back to my feeling that as a special interest group (climbers
>and wild campers) we have little if any lobby power and barely any understanding
>amongst the wider community in Australia.
>

Objections were sent.

Protest? Better and easier simply to boycott the whole thing.
kieranl
28/06/2014
2:48:57 PM
On 28/06/2014 patto wrote:
>
>Protest? Better and easier simply to boycott the whole thing.

Better? in what sense? And what are you boycotting, the camping or the fee-paying?

And no associated campaign? If a boycott happens and no-one knows about it does anyone care?

Do you want to make a difference or do you just want to not pay up?

JamesMc
28/06/2014
6:15:31 PM
An appropriate protest would be to cease doing voluntary work in the parts where fees are charged.

eg weed pulling, track work and S&R for non climbers

Stugang
28/06/2014
7:07:53 PM
Jeez kbomb you really got up on the shitty side of bed today

Rather than flaming peeps why don't try and be constructive on what I think is a legitimate issue.
johny
29/06/2014
10:45:16 AM
On 28/06/2014 kieranl wrote:
>On 28/06/2014 patto wrote:
>>
>>Protest? Better and easier simply to boycott the whole thing.
>
>Better? in what sense? And what are you boycotting, the camping or the
>fee-paying?
>
>And no associated campaign? If a boycott happens and no-one knows about
>it does anyone care?
>
>Do you want to make a difference or do you just want to not pay up?

I think Rod is right with the anarchistic approach. The reality is that parks cant enforce fee collection from bush camping. They dont have enough staff to keep the toilets clean, much less play cops and robbers with bush campers. And from what I have heard they dont want to anyway.

If the idiots in charge are determined to put these fees and regulations in place and completely ignore us, why do we bother legitimating their office by continuing to write angry letters? Or engage in boring meetings? The system has proven to be totally flawed(big surprise). Who needs them anyway? Just simply ignore them, their fees, their camping rules, etc. Do whatever you like. Noones going to get any fines bushcamping. I have already heard that the parks officers(who DID NOT make up these bullshit fees) are so embarrassed by the new fees they refuse to collect them.



kieranl
29/06/2014
11:42:05 AM
On 28/06/2014 Stugang wrote:
>Jeez kbomb you really got up on the shitty side of bed today
>
>Rather than flaming peeps why don't try and be constructive on what I
>think is a legitimate issue.

Apologies if it came across as a flame. I was probably a bit terse but to me the idea of a boycott in isolation is pretty ineffectual. It might make you feel good but it doesn't achieve much.

What are you boycotting, why and what do you hope to achieve from it?
If you want to achieve something then someone has to notice it. Any boycott will only get noticed if A) it hurts the target and b) it's known about.

It also has to be timely. The bureaucrats at the ParksVic aren't going to give a stuff about our protests/boycotts etc. The MBA solution if a park doesn't meet its fee target will be to extract an "efficiency dividend" from the budget of that park.

The only chance of changing policy on things such as bush camping and fee-levels is to get politicians onside before the next election in just a few months time. There's probably buckley's of getting any concession from the libs/nats but I'll write to my local conservative candidate and presumed next MP, Emma Kealy, in any case.

It will be probably more effective to write to labor candidates and the shadow minister for environment, Lisa Neville ( lisa.neville@parliament.vic.gov.au )



Superstu
29/06/2014
12:00:31 PM
My guess the motivations of the legislation is a response to lobbying from the caravan park/tourism industry to drive business into the commercial operations. All fits well with LNP who value "business" over any esoteric values such as allowing affordable recreational opportunities for the less well-heeled or simple recreation out in nature rather than a built up commercial environment.

Protest by disobedience? Pfft. There is an election coming up. Make people aware what has happened and what they have lost. Are the VNPA doing a leaflet drop in marginal seats or something like that? Write articles to the local papers. I'm sure journos will cover a story about how family camping and fishing trips will become a thing of the past. Or how tourism in regional areas will die off as its too expensive to go bush camping.

Make it an election issue so the pollies who brought this in can see the public don't like it and if they don't back down they'll risk getting booted out. And the opposition might take a policy to the election to put modest fees back.

Then again, there appear to be plenty of nongs in this country who seem capable of voting against their own interests, out of ignorance or gullibility I'm not sure.

Wendy
29/06/2014
2:49:22 PM
Just booked camping for Frog. I remember thinking last year it was the biggest disaster of an online booking system in existence. I think it might actually be worse than that. PV can always look to PQ for inspiration.
Tris
29/06/2014
9:46:39 PM
The QNPW booking system is not too bad if you are using it more often (i.e. living in Queensland). It is a bit annoying at times but it does function as required.
Wendy
29/06/2014
10:03:07 PM
hmph. need to register to book, have to fish through various pages and a long list of sites to find yours, has stupid irrelevant options like "4wd and tent", slow and drops out, doesn't function on latest browsers, didn't work on mobile devices. What bit of it you want people to pay, you should make it easy to pay do people not understand?
martym
29/06/2014
10:22:37 PM
On 29/06/2014 Wendy wrote:
>hmph. need to register to book, have to fish through various pages and
>a long list of sites to find yours, has stupid irrelevant options like
>"4wd and tent", slow and drops out, doesn't function on latest browsers,
>didn't work on mobile devices. What bit of it you want people to pay, you
>should make it easy to pay do people not understand?
Or maybe they don't want you to go?
Privatize everything. Sounds like A certain coalition singing in unison

Doug
29/06/2014
10:27:08 PM
On 29/06/2014 Tris wrote:
>The QNPW booking system is not too bad if you are using it more often (i.e.
>living in Queensland). It is a bit annoying at times but it does function
>as required.

Nah. It's rubbish. We used it a number of times last year and it was a pain in the proverbial every time.
The commonality of these online booking operations is that it's all about governments getting too big for their britches. They take the power away from those working at the coal face and rake all the money off into centralised coffers, alienating both the end users and their own workers in the process.
patto
1/07/2014
7:28:23 AM
Book your stay at Arapiles!
(Less than 30 days prior 100% cancellation fee.)

http://www.parkstay.vic.gov.au/mount-arapiles-tooan-state-park#/accom/66328

kuu
Online Now
1/07/2014
9:00:06 AM
On 1/07/2014 patto wrote:
>Book your stay at Arapiles!
>(Less than 30 days prior 100% cancellation fee.)
>
>http://www.parkstay.vic.gov.au/mount-arapiles-tooan-state-park#/accom/66328

It appears you can book for one or two persons but the system apparently can't handle a larger number, even though the drop-down option allows for more than two people.
stingray4100
1/07/2014
9:07:15 AM
On 1/07/2014 kuu wrote:
>On 1/07/2014 patto wrote:
>>Book your stay at Arapiles!
>>(Less than 30 days prior 100% cancellation fee.)
>>
>>http://www.parkstay.vic.gov.au/mount-arapiles-tooan-state-park#/accom/66328
>
>It appears you can book for one or two persons but the system apparently
>can't handle a larger number, even though the drop-down option allows for
>more than two people.

Maximum number of people per site = 2. To book a spot for 4 people, you'll need two bookings. It's really all kind of irrelevant because there's no 'sites' to speak of anyway. What a pain.
patto
1/07/2014
9:07:23 AM
The whole website runs off a campsite based system. (Probably because the website portal is a hotel booking backend.)

The maximum site size for Arapiles is apparently 2 people.
Wendy
1/07/2014
10:36:53 AM
Is there a max no of sites? I'm on the way to qls and can't be stuffed negotiating their site on my phone

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