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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

 Page 2 of 3. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 46
Author
Grampians fire: looking forward

shiltz
21/01/2014
2:19:36 PM
On 21/01/2014 sbm wrote:
>Can we just delete this whole thread and start again?

Yep, that might be a good idea. A bit soon to be arguing about access to closed areas when the fires are still burning. There are no shortage of other places to climb and only time will tell how badly damaged the closed areas are or what delays there might be reopening them.
In the meantime, spare a thought for all the people living around Halls Gap and over on the Wartook side who just had a really sh#t week.
kieranl
21/01/2014
2:38:44 PM
On 21/01/2014 ambyeok wrote:
>... were (sic) not out there
>to save lives or cure cancer.
Bugger. There goes my cunning plan to win the Nobel prize for medicine.
Reluctant
21/01/2014
5:08:49 PM
Certainly not for literature. Perhaps physics. A study into forces on a falling body?

IdratherbeclimbingM9
21/01/2014
8:22:51 PM
On 21/01/2014 sbm wrote:
>Can we just delete this whole thread and start again?

... ~> much better to delete the real fires first before worrying about flamings on Chocky!
;-)
kieranl
21/01/2014
9:21:06 PM
Reality check is that the fires are not out but contained. It's going to be 36 here on Thursday and 37 on Monday. The right circumstances could whip up the fire at any point and spread it very rapidly. You would have to be crazy to go into any area of the Grampians that is closed this coming long weekend.
There are currently police roadblocks on some access roads and residents have to get hospital-style identity wristbands to facilitate their movement, I kid you not.

Wendy
22/01/2014
11:42:50 AM
Damo is being crotchety because he didn't come to buffalo saying it'd be too hot and he s missing out. But seriously, climbers kid themselves they are environmentally friendly. Many are totally insensitive including ignoring closures, not using paths, leaving rubbish, crapping everywhere, driving around fences, I could go on. They will continue to be dickheads in the aftermath of this fires too. From my reckoning, theres now bugger all of the gramps that hasn't burnt to a crisp in the last 8 years. Poor bloody environment.
Justcameron
22/01/2014
11:57:18 AM
On 22/01/2014 Wendy wrote:
>From my reckoning, theres now bugger all of
>the gramps that hasn't burnt to a crisp in the last 8 years. Poor bloody
>environment.

Just on that, isn't fire a natural part of the lifecycle in most of Australia?

If course I sympathise with people who have lost homes and property, but I think it's all good for the environment.

nmonteith
22/01/2014
12:17:21 PM
On 22/01/2014 Wendy wrote:
>From my reckoning, theres now bugger all of
>the gramps that hasn't burnt to a crisp in the last 8 years. Poor bloody
>environment.

I've been waiting for the Stapylton area to go up in flames for 20 years! I think it's pretty normal to get a fire every decade or so - it seemed the northern Gramps had avoided the inevitable for too long...

ambyeok
22/01/2014
12:23:05 PM
On 21/01/2014 Reluctant wrote:
>Certainly not for literature. Perhaps physics. A study into forces on a falling body?

Sorry buddy, I already claimed the physics laureate for my work on Treecamtm
jprockbelly
22/01/2014
12:23:12 PM
Good to see chockstone still living up to it's reputation for maturity and respectful courtesy.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
22/01/2014
12:45:58 PM
On 22/01/2014 jprockbelly wrote:
>Good to see chockstone still living up to it's reputation for maturity and respectful courtesy.

Isn't it always the way eh? Ignore the thousands of mature, respectful and courteous posts (not to mention helpful ones), but give a reputation for the minority of... *




(* I think you just made ODH's day?)
Heh, heh, heh.
kieranl
22/01/2014
12:50:20 PM
On 22/01/2014 Justcameron wrote:
>On 22/01/2014 Wendy wrote:
>>From my reckoning, theres now bugger all of
>>the gramps that hasn't burnt to a crisp in the last 8 years. Poor bloody
>>environment.
>
>Just on that, isn't fire a natural part of the lifecycle in most of Australia?
>
>
>If course I sympathise with people who have lost homes and property, but
>I think it's all good for the environment.

While many plants require burning as part of their life cycle, infrequent, hot burns aren't necessarily good for the environment. Before white settlement there was a sophisticated regime of fire management that we haven't got our heads around yet.

These are the major fires in the Gramps in the last 30 years that I am aware of :

Victoria Range 1984 (Think this was an over-enthusiastic planned burn)
Mt Zero Range February 99
Northern Serra, Mt William, Mt Difficult, Asses Ears Range January 2006
Victoria Range February 2013
Mt Zero, Mt Difficult, Asses Ears January 2014

Ironically, one of the worst-hit parts of the Vic Range last year, the Emus Foot area had been scheduled as part of a planned burning program in 2012 but the burns didn't occur, or not to the extent planned, because it was too dry.

On 22/01/2014 nmonteith wrote:
>
>I've been waiting for the Stapylton area to go up in flames for 20 years!
>I think it's pretty normal to get a fire every decade or so - it seemed
>the northern Gramps had avoided the inevitable for too long...
Actually only 15 years between drinks. The 1999 fire didn't burn through Stapylton, it was stopped at the edge of the Amphitheatre.

Unfortunatley we don't do our planned burning well. There is just too much politics and bureaucracy involved and it's hard to see how this can be overcome as planned burning is such a risky business.

edit : We don't do planned burning well because it's risky and because we don't do it well it's risky - great feedback loop

nmonteith
22/01/2014
12:59:57 PM
On 22/01/2014 kieranl wrote:
>Victoria Range 1984 (Think this was an over-enthusiastic planned burn)
>Mt Zero Range February 99
>Northern Serra, Mt William, Mt Difficult, Asses Ears Range January 2006
>Victoria Range February 2013
>Mt Zero, Mt Difficult, Asses Ears January 2014

There was a reasonably large fire in the Vic Ranges in 2003ish wasn't there? The 'out of control' burn that went through Curiosity/Slander/Gilhams area...
grangrump
Online Now
22/01/2014
1:51:19 PM
On 22/01/2014 Justcameron wrote:
>... isn't fire a natural part of the lifecycle in most of Australia? ...
>I think it's all good for the environment.
Remember that biologically most of the natural bush is now broken into 'islands', so that recovery does not necessarily proceed as it might have once. Weeds can significantly change the regrowth area, depending on fire intensity and seeding. Animals cannot move freely into/out of burnt areas.
kieranl
22/01/2014
2:30:50 PM
On 22/01/2014 Justcameron wrote:
>If course I sympathise with people who have lost homes and property, but
>I think it's all good for the environment.
The number of homes lost in the fires has been revised up to 30. I know people from at least 2 of those households. I also know several others who confronted the fires approaching their homes and either left or fought for their lives. All have undergone severe trauma. "It's all good for the environment" doesn't cut it.

shiltz
22/01/2014
2:38:23 PM
Controlled burns are much harder to manage in a modern context of larger population and infrastructure. There are not many days in a year that have suitable weather conditions such that the guys running the "controlled" burn can be confident that no fences, buildings or livestock on adjoining properties will be threatened. Add to this the challenge of having to announce the burns in advance to be sure no visitors are in the area and it must get pretty hard. Think back six months and consider how we all might have reacted to a proposal to close the Staplylton area for the winter months so they could do controlled burns.
I don't think anyone would argue with the suggestion that ideally there should be regular low temperature fires in different small sections of the park rather than massive high temperature fires that kill the mature trees and leave the wildlife with nowhere to run.
drdeviousii
22/01/2014
2:47:47 PM
On 22/01/2014 kieranl wrote:
>All have undergone severe trauma. "It's all good for the
>environment" doesn't cut it.

of course it doesn't. But the next explanation that "they shouldn't have had houses in fire-prone locations" doesn't cut it either. No win.

No-one wants Parks Vic to do controlled burns because there is a history of "controlled" burns getting out of control. But then everyone whines about the tragedy of their house being burnt to the ground. No win situation.

Edit to agree with nmonteith. Lots of areas of Gramps have had seemingly high fuel loads sitting in all the gullies & small valleys for a long time. I guess the fuel is gone now?
bones
22/01/2014
3:03:42 PM
On 22/01/2014 drdeviousii wrote:
>Edit to agree with nmonteith. Lots of areas of Gramps have had seemingly
>high fuel loads sitting in all the gullies & small valleys for a long time.
> I guess the fuel is gone now?

Should introduce cattle grazing into the Gramps, the Libs tell us that controls fuel loads nicely.

Back on topic though, I think the OP's sentiment is a good one. If you've never been to some of the few crags that are still open then it probably woudn't hurt to hold off on your Taipan project for a while and try them out. The climbing might not be as special but it'll make a nice change of scenery. One of my favourite weekends was at Black Ians, and I've been meaning to check out Barbican rocks for a long time....
One Day Hero
22/01/2014
3:47:18 PM
On 22/01/2014 bones wrote:
>Back on topic though, I think the OP's sentiment is a good one. If you've
>never been to some of the few crags that are still open then it probably
>woudn't hurt to hold off on your Taipan project for a while and try them
>out. The climbing might not be as special but it'll make a nice change
>of scenery. One of my favourite weekends was at Black Ians, and I've been
>meaning to check out Barbican rocks for a long time....

Nope, the op's sentiment is a bunch of shit. He's had a mild trauma of nearly having his house burn and has decided that it's a good opportunity to be the boss of everyone.

I love the idea that the Chimney Pots are some kind of cool plan B for Taipan. I'd fly from the other side of the world for Taipan, Black fuching Ian's fuching Rocks isn't worth driving to from Bendigo, let alone from interstate! There's better climbing 10k's from my house in Canberra than what is found at Barbican fuching Wall! You people obviously have taste in your arse's or, more likely, the properly good gramps routes are too hard for you anyway, so you have no idea what world class climbing actually looks like.

Also, the notion that a few climbers walking in to fire affected areas is an environmental catastrophe shits me to tears. What's going to happen in the next couple of months is that 1000s of cubic meters of topsoil will wash off those areas. A couple of wheelbarrow loads of extra erosion from climber tracks is completely inconsequential, a drop in the ocean.......yet a bunch of myopic idiots will act like it's a huge problem.

What I do agree with is that climbers shouldn't compromise relations with the authorities by blatantly breaking the rules, use your fuching head.

That seems like enough ranting for a bit :)

The good Dr
22/01/2014
4:18:27 PM
Geez Damo, sometimes your faux outrage seems to stop your brain from actually operating. With regards to the effects of foot traffic in fire affected regions there are a number of things that occur which can have a significantly greater impact than you would initially surmise. Significant research has been done on this and I advise you do a bit of actual reading. You can then blow as much steam as you are willing to.

1. Introduction of weed species. These blighters will out compete the local flora and establish very quickly and can significantly reduce species in general and specific niches (the base of cliffs and surrounds being a specific vulnerable micro environment. Tromping into a cliff can introduce those species much further into the fire affected zone more quickly as well giving them a magnificent head start to spread into these zones.
2. Soil compaction on pathways actually creates drainage pathways that may not naturally occur. Ever seen a washed out walking track. In fire affected areas this leads to multiple tracks feeding further into item 1.

Changes in the biodiversity of an area can affect the species that are dependent directly on the species that are removed from that environment and other species linked to them in that environment. Recolonization by introduced species really fuchs things up!!

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There are 46 messages in this topic.

 

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