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General Climbing Discussion

 Page 2 of 2. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 29
Terrorist attack at Nanga Parbat
12:40:49 AM
Some more precise background on the attackers here:

10:58:28 AM
On 26/06/2013 Wendy wrote:
>Thanks for standing up for polite conversation, Cliff.
>Paul, just because people depend on tourists for a living does not mean
>that governments and aid should not be provided to the people of the country
>first. Tourism in many areas of the world is fraught with problems and
>exploitation of locals who have no other options and that's a whole extra
>discussion. A lot of poor countries devote unbalanced resources to keeping
>visitors safe, because they want to create a good image, bring tourists
>to their country, etc etc. I think asking them to do so at the cost of
>their own people is questionable. Note the bit about Pakistan has been
>beset by militants for years - militants (and in some cases also militaries)
>who also attack and terrorise local people. And if you want to argue that
>resources should go here, because this was one of the "most peaceful regions
>of Pakistan" - well, that also seems like questionable allocation of limited
>resources. And none of this changes my original point - people are subject
>to these sorts of events all around the world, everyday, and it is often
>unmentioned until it is tourists who are attacked.

I don't think it comes as that much of a hypocritical surprise that western media is more attached to the tragedies of "western" people and activities.
11:02:23 AM
On 27/06/2013 Cliff wrote:
>Tx Damo. The TTP's goals didn't appear to be included in the post. What's
>their raison d'etre?

I guess where it says "Organization's strategic goals are purely based on enmity toward the Pakistani government and military." means they would like to see the Pakistan government go down and a less secular, more fundamentalist, regime installed. The fundamentalist groups see the government as a servant of the US and therefore implicit in the deaths from drone strikes and similar activity. Obviously it's a lot more complicated than that.

All the players have different objectives but don't directly oppose each other as each player is used in a secondary capacity for other, often contradictory, purposes. The Pakistani ISI is still obsessed with India, so supports Islamic fundamentalists as a de facto tool against India in Kashmir. That those same fighters come and go from Afghanistan and are part of the forces fought by the US, ostensibly the ally of the Pakistan government, who are supposed to oversee the ISI, is just one part of the problem, for example. Everybody's objectives mesh, but do not align.

There is also a growing element of Chinese influence, coming in from the north via the KKH road works, with a rail line planned to link NW Chinese resources with sea access. What the Soviets wanted in 1979, but now done via money, not tanks. There is resentment against that Chinese presence, with knowledge of Chinese repression of Muslim Uighurs just over the border in Xinjiang. That Chinese were murdered in this attack will not go unnoticed in Beijing.

I'm sad about it all, of course, but that's nothing to the grief of the victims' loved ones and the hardship more locals will now face. They've had impacts from 9/11, the Attabad Lake landslide/cutoff and then catastrophic floods, with a giant earthquake in there as well. The place is screwed, yet they must carry on.

What remained of adventure tourism after all that stuff was one of the final threads they had left to the outside world - politically, economically and socially. TTP know that too. One of the reasons any Taliban/TTP/Al Qaida type groups never took hold in the Baltoro/Hispar regions is that the locals would not allow it, as they valued the foreign tourism. You could say the nearby Siachen/Line-Of-Control army presence helped, but they are also targets, so that is a mixed blessing.
6:28:16 PM
I wonder if any other Basecamps are at threat? I would have thought the Karakorum giants would still be safe due to the long approaches and the expeditions all departing from such a military stronghold in the town of Skardu. Nanga Parbat sits at the end of the Himalayas and would have been a soft target.

I hope the rest of the mountaineering world is not scared away from the Karakorum but I reckon they will be, such a pity to see the area and locals suffer yet again. Can't see many risking travelling the KKH and the road between Skardu and the KKH, most will opt for challenges in Nepal, Tibet and India.

(By the way did anyone read the readers comment on that link posted - Many in the US are just so ignorant).
2:44:38 PM
One of the teams heading for the 'G's that was shunted back to ISB has now flown to Skardu ..apparently with an increased military/police presence.

Will be interesting to see what happens in the future. Maybe less of a web presence advertising team locations and for the braver souls, skipping NP and concentrating on the mountains around Concordia.

12:27:20 PM
On 26/06/2013 Wendy wrote:
>... but i do
>think it's a bit rich to ask one of the poorer areas in the word to "pull
>together to welcome and protect visitors and tourists".

' ...The High Altitude Police Reaches Diamir BC [ Feb 2015 ]

Iranian climbers are reporting that a group of ‘high altitude’ police officers have reached the BC. “.. [they] will stay there till the end of the expedition with their high level of patience and responsibility. They are very kind and friendly officers”

The security officers also conveyed a message from Government, “The government of Pakistan have fully established safety in the base camp of Nanga Parbat and other mountains of the region and according to this matter had sent 10 armed officers to this camp but due to condition and lack of enough tent, 4 officers had to go to villages in Buner Das region and they will be exchanged each week. However the local people of Diamir village will also prevent strangers to enter the Diamir valley.”...'

1:44:19 PM
On 25/06/2013 uwhp510 wrote:
>I agree that its a fuched up thing to do, but I don't think the logic
>is at all hard to understand...

Heres wot actually happened ...

2:14:03 PM

And finally , here's an EXELLENT Messner-blessed account/ reenactment of the epic 1970 ascent of the Rupal Face of Nanga Parbat - the highest rock,snow n ice face on the planet ... and the traumatic descent into the now infamous Damir Valley ...
6:34:56 PM


( 3 expeditions heading to Nanga NOW )

( if link not work , google ' .when rock climbing and terrorism collide' ., by Greg Child )


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There are 29 messages in this topic.


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