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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

 Page 6 of 8. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 100 | 101 to 120 | 121 to 140 | 141 to 152
Author
She sells sea shells - Point Perp
undercling mike
11/03/2013
1:43:41 PM
On 11/03/2013 Big G wrote:
>
>Its no more or less of a squeeze job than Urban Spacecowboy is (or whatever
>its called) between Over the yardarm and Dracophyllium Corner.

There's a route between Over the yardarm and Dracophyllium Corner?

Big G
11/03/2013
1:55:34 PM
On 11/03/2013 undercling mike wrote:
>
>There's a route between Over the yardarm and Dracophyllium Corner?

yep - goes up the middleish of the slab on gear

dracophyllium corner looks untouched for years to me - full of soil, full of choss and the odd dracophyllium of course
undercling mike
11/03/2013
2:02:25 PM
On 11/03/2013 Big G wrote:
>On 11/03/2013 undercling mike wrote:
>>
>>There's a route between Over the yardarm and Dracophyllium Corner?
>
>yep - goes up the middleish of the slab on gear
>
>dracophyllium corner looks untouched for years to me - full of soil, full
>of choss and the odd dracophyllium of course

Fair enough, I didn't see it on thecrag.com. If it's on gear then who cares if it's a squeeze job, it's not affecting other lines. I have actually climbed Dracophyllum Corner, though that was a number of years back. I think it's always been a bit dirty and vegetated.

JMK
11/03/2013
3:55:03 PM
I don't agree. If a bolt is being removed- the debolter must do a proper job. What happens if the Bolter comes back and puts in a new one? You could soon end up with a bunch of stumps in which case the debolter is as bad as the Bolter!

Pull the bolt properly or don't pull it at all!
One Day Hero
11/03/2013
5:14:45 PM
On 11/03/2013 JMK wrote:
>What happens if the Bolter comes back and puts in a new one? You could
>soon end up with a bunch of stumps in which case the debolter is as bad
>as the Bolter!

I have a simple solution JMK. If anyone goes back and starts replacing chopped bolts, DCA will take the war to Nowra, The Blueys sport crags, Mt. Alex, and other fun places :)

nmonteith
11/03/2013
5:36:38 PM
On 11/03/2013 One Day Hero wrote:
>I have a simple solution JMK. If anyone goes back and starts replacing
>chopped bolts, DCA will take the war to Nowra, The Blueys sport crags,
>Mt. Alex, and other fun places :)

This sounds like a very well thought out plan. I can't foresee any problems. I think this is a win win for the cliff and all climbers.

E. Wells
11/03/2013
5:41:36 PM
Urban Spaceman is a top climb with a cute little belay bench set a few meters from topout , its as good as over the yardarm just without the exposure, I really enjoy those routes. Is reach around ACTUALLY a squeeze job? I havent been there for ages......
A bolt on Joyboys wouldnt go astray but then that would be robbing others of a 'great 'ol time' I suppose. Climbed the 24 next to it no probs but Joyboys had me quietly frothing!!
One Day Hero
11/03/2013
5:43:48 PM
Feel free to suggest a better plan for stopping the ringafication of the universe if you have one Neil. I reckon our idea will work pretty well.

nmonteith
11/03/2013
5:55:19 PM
On 11/03/2013 One Day Hero wrote:
>Feel free to suggest a better plan for stopping the ringafication of the
>universe if you have one Neil. I reckon our idea will work pretty well.

I just foresee people going and bolting Integral Crack in revenge. Or something similarly stupid.

Eduardo Slabofvic
11/03/2013
6:08:13 PM
On 11/03/2013 One Day Hero wrote:
>Feel free to suggest a better plan for stopping the ringafication of the
>universe

Fiscal policy.
One Day Hero
11/03/2013
6:10:25 PM
On 11/03/2013 Edward Oslabofvic wrote:
>Fiscal policy.

I'm intrigued Edward. Tell me more about this fish scale policy of yours.
One Day Hero
11/03/2013
6:26:39 PM
On 11/03/2013 nmonteith wrote:
>I just foresee people going and bolting Integral Crack in revenge. Or
>something similarly stupid.

You're right Neil, or they might even bolt Sail the Nullabor!? Fuch it, they're going to take all that ground inch by inch, while the vague possibility of more serious consequences keeps people like you sitting on their hands.


nmonteith
11/03/2013
6:59:48 PM
On 11/03/2013 One Day Hero wrote:
>You're right Neil, or they might even bolt Sail the Nullabor!? Fuch it,
>they're going to take all that ground inch by inch, while the vague possibility
>of more serious consequences keeps people like you sitting on their hands.

My plan is to do new routes at Point Perp in the style I think is appropriate. I equipped 3 routes on the weekend - all mixed climbs with a fair bit of trad. That way they can't be bolted as sport routes. That is my shitty plan. It seems Will is doing the same thing - I saw he did a few new mixed routes on the weekend as well.
pecheur
11/03/2013
7:10:00 PM
On 11/03/2013 nmonteith wrote:

>My plan is to do new routes at Point Perp in the style I think is appropriate.
>I equipped 3 routes on the weekend - all mixed climbs with a fair bit of
>trad. That way they can't be bolted as sport routes. That is my shitty
>plan. It seems Will is doing the same thing - I saw he did a few new mixed
>routes on the weekend as well.

Sorry Neil I don't understand the bit in bold. What exactly is stopping people from sinking more bolts into your climb? The whole point is that people are retroing established trad climbs, I can't see them being adverse to sinking bolts into a new mixed climb, or am I (hopefully) missing some sarcasm?
One Day Hero
11/03/2013
7:23:50 PM
On 11/03/2013 nmonteith wrote:
>
>That way they can't be bolted as sport routes.

Apparently they can though.

I don't think that developing shitty mixed routes (not saying that your new routes are shitty) should be the only way to prevent them becoming shitty sport routes at a trad and mixed cliff. You won't stop sport routes from appearing with your approach, it'll just shuffle them onto crappier leftovers.

Time for slightly different tactics


Nmonteith
11/03/2013
8:10:41 PM
A couple of weeks ago when this first flared up I think there was a bit of a (gasp) consensus about route style, and all of the bolters realized they had stepped over the mark. But now that there are unknowns that are anonymously chopping bolts and you're threating to chop at other crags I can comfortably say you have turned it back into an us vs them situation. If you keep up the silly threats then expect the other side to turn inwards and start mass bolting again. Both sides can do things out of spite. If you be a dickhead about it then you'll have to spend the rest of your life patrolling the crags and looking over your shoulder.

Nmonteith
11/03/2013
8:18:13 PM
On 11/03/2013 pecheur wrote:
>On 11/03/2013 nmonteith wrote:
>>My plan is to do new routes at Point Perp in the style I think is appropriate.
>>I equipped 3 routes on the weekend - all mixed climbs with a fair bit
>of
>>trad. That way they can't be bolted as sport routes. That is my
>shitty
>>plan. It seems Will is doing the same thing - I saw he did a few new
>mixed
>>routes on the weekend as well.
>
>Sorry Neil I don't understand the bit in bold. What exactly is stopping
>people from sinking more bolts into your climb? The whole point is that
>people are retroing established trad climbs, I can't see them being adverse
>to sinking bolts into a new mixed climb, or am I (hopefully) missing some
>sarcasm?

The problems at Point Perp are because climbers have been bolting 'new routes' in close proximity to established routes, and occasionaly these new bolts have been near trad on established routes, or next to obvious trad placements. No one has been delibertaly retrobolting. So, by doing new routes with less bolts means that the chance of bolts ending up near established routes is lessened.
uwhp510
11/03/2013
10:33:27 PM
On 11/03/2013 Nmonteith wrote:
>A couple of weeks ago when this first flared up I think there was a bit
>of a (gasp) consensus about route style, and all of the bolters realized
>they had stepped over the mark.

I also was of that impression, but I also understand that part of the deal that was worked out was that some of the new stuff would be retro-mixedified (ie superfluous bolts that are next to good gear placements would be taken out). Hopefully that's still the plan, otherwise it would seem like the compromise isn't being honoured.

Regarding bolt wars, consider the following.

The following two actions are symmetric;

a) Removing a trad route by (either partly or fully) retro-bolting it,
b) Removing a sport route by (either partly or fully) de-bolting it.

The only differences are that; (a) happens quite a lot, and (b) happens almost never. I think that doing a bit of (b) (maybe even just talking about it) might provide a bit of perspective and reflection in prospective bolters that maybe doing (a) isn't cool either.

JMK
11/03/2013
11:21:12 PM
Just because a route has bolts on it but also has gear possibilities Does not mean u have to climb it as a sport route. There are quite a few routes around that I have lead on gear without clipping the bolts and at other times clipped the bolts. This is why I don't get too upset as I can choose. This does not mean that I advocate bolting cracks etc. If a pure sport climber wants to only clip bolts then I know how much they are missing out on. It takes all types. Best crack I ever climbed was at a sport crag in Spain. All bolted, but I placed my own gear. Same route different richer experience, my gain their loss.

cruze
12/03/2013
7:18:29 AM
On 11/03/2013 JMK wrote:
>Best crack I ever climbed was at a sport crag
>in Spain. All bolted, but I placed my own gear. Same route different richer
>experience, my gain their loss.

Well I guess it's horses for courses but personally I find bolted cracks aesthetically ugly. They climb weird too. It feels like gym climbing - like you are training for climbing a proper crack without having to worry overly about consequence or developing the skills necessary to climb a crack ground up.

I am sure everyone that has participated in this thread is aware that when the rock is good at the Point it is bloody amazing and the gear (typically cams in breaks) is bloody easy to place. To me it makes no sense to place bolts next to good placements. I have no problem with mixed climbing and don't feel the need to explain to Brits why we place bolts in blank sections or explain to Euros why we don't bolt cracks.

 Page 6 of 8. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 100 | 101 to 120 | 121 to 140 | 141 to 152
There are 152 messages in this topic.

 

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