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Retrobolting at Bungonia

One Day Hero

22-Jun-2012
12:46:14 PM

Bungonia is an amazing limestone multipitch crag close to Sydney, yet no one goes there. Would more people go there if it had ringbolts every 2.5m


benjenga

22-Jun-2012
1:09:04 PM

It must be that time of the month when all the pointless poll start.
I think the mega walk in and out of the gorge will always keep the hoards away.

One Day Hero

22-Jun-2012
3:17:48 PM

No, this poll has a point. I'm proving to Neil that if you ask the masses what they want, the majority vote will be to bolt everything. That's because a slim majority of climbers are chickenshit pussies who have never been to half the best crags in the country because they're scared that they might get scared.


nmonteith

22-Jun-2012
3:18:44 PM

And I say you can only vote if you have actually climbed at these crags and done some of the classics in their current form.

Olbert

22-Jun-2012
3:23:51 PM

On 22/06/2012 nmonteith wrote:
>And I say you can only vote if you have actually climbed at these crags
>and done some of the classics in their current form.

I am somewhat ashamed of my inability to vote on this poll following this guideline.

One Day Hero

22-Jun-2012
3:28:03 PM

That's silly Neil, you've got a bunch of people on the other thread voting to retrobolt stuff they've never tried in its current form. What about the Sydney Rockies crag at Bungers? Doesn't that have some pussy easy shit? Would you value someone's opinion on the gorge more highly because they'd been toproping at the rockies poxy crag?


climbau

22-Jun-2012
3:31:19 PM

I agree that one has to experience the current format to be Able to vote for or against change.
I have done a little in the gorge (polenta pumper, strangeness and charm, and a few oher worthless things on adams lookout) and have voted that 'yes the gorge would be more popular if it was ringbolted every 2.5m' , but that doesn't mean that I think it should happen.
The gorge is a pants filling experience for me, and I reckon it should stay that way cause I like a bit of spice in life ( or to know that I can find some if I ever want it again!).


rodw

22-Jun-2012
4:31:27 PM

ODH is on a roll today lol..re-bolting Bungonia wont happen as it just to epic for people to bother...as usual his passion for all things ODH believes in means we have to listen to him exaggerate the issues across many threads until he thinks he won.

widewetandslippery

22-Jun-2012
4:42:41 PM

Fants is liberal minded to bolting but imagine the newspaper headline of him beating the retrobolter of jewlbox to death with the perfect hammer


wallwombat

22-Jun-2012
4:50:29 PM

You could bolt the shit out of Bungers and no one would even know.


IdratherbeclimbingM9

22-Jun-2012
9:27:40 PM

On 22/06/2012 One Day Hero wrote:
>Bungonia is an amazing limestone multipitch crag close to Sydney,

True.

>yet no one goes there.

Untrue.

>Would more people go there if it had ringbolts every 2.5m

Sadly (in my opinion), there already are some routes with that kind of bolt spacing there...
~> The hard single pitch stuff of that nature I can understand and live with, but the multipitch routes that top out and use that kind of dumbed down adventure are a tragedy.

One Day Hero

26-Jun-2012
4:20:33 PM

On 22/06/2012 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:

>~> The hard single pitch stuff of that nature I can understand and live
>with, but the multipitch routes that top out and use that kind of dumbed
>down adventure are a tragedy.
>

Mate come up for a visit sometime and I'll tow you up Evolution or Siblings...........they are pretty amazing outings for "dumbed down adventure"

Also, since you're a fan of "smartened up adventure", maybe you can lead me up one of Fant's old school horrorshows which haven't seen a repeat this millennium.


nmonteith

26-Jun-2012
5:07:11 PM

I'm not sure where the dumbed down multipitch sport routes are at Bungonia? Every route I have done there seems to have some degree of trad and sketchy runouts. Usually any pitch below grade 22 will be a bit dicey and hairy - but when it got a bit more technically hard suddenly the bolts get a lot closer together! Evolution is a great example of this - heaps of bolts in the 24 pitches - a great lack of bolts (or even belay anchors?!) in the easier lower pitches.


IdratherbeclimbingM9

26-Jun-2012
7:49:59 PM

On 26/06/2012 One Day Hero wrote:
>On 22/06/2012 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>
>>~> The hard single pitch stuff of that nature I can understand and live
>>with, but the multipitch routes that top out and use that kind of dumbed
>>down adventure are a tragedy.
>>
>
>Mate come up for a visit sometime and I'll tow you up Evolution or Siblings...........the
> are pretty amazing outings for "dumbed down adventure"

Careful ODH, or I will take you up on that offer for Siblings!
>
>Also, since you're a fan of "smartened up adventure", maybe you can lead
>me up one of Fant's old school horrorshows which haven't seen a repeat
>this millennium.

What, you haven't done Big Red Supergiant yet?
_{~> Take a 0.5 cam for the first move off the second last belay, if you don't like heading out into extended choss runouts and possible FF2'ing onto the belay!

Heh, heh, heh.}


IdratherbeclimbingM9

26-Jun-2012
8:04:16 PM

On 22/06/2012 nmonteith wrote:
>And I say you can only vote if you have actually climbed at these crags
>and done some of the classics in their current form.

That is rubbish*.
Would you say the same thing about climbers writing to their politician or signing a petition on behalf of keeping it open if the area was under threat of closure?

Your stance is hugely biased, as the climbers who identify with Bungonia now, are more likely to be in the multipitch-trad-competent &/or adventure bracket rather than the single pitch sport mob.
ODH is right to point out that if the majority who vote happen to come from the latter group, that things will change dramatically there if they could have their unfettered way.

Have you ever stopped to consider that because you are an active bolter that by default your opinion/actions already contribute to the erosion of adventure as measured by ye olde skool ethics?
☻

(*I am also aware that if the sport mob all voted, then the adventure mob would be sidelined by the numbers, which is basically what ODH is trying to point out...)

On 22/06/2012 widewetandslippery wrote:
>Fants is liberal minded to bolting but imagine the newspaper headline of
>him beating the retrobolter of jewlbox to death with the perfect hammer
... loaned to him by myself if he ever needs it!

~> ThereyagoWW&S finishedthatforya!
;-)

citationx

27-Jun-2012
7:22:35 AM

I don't know what talking about bolting it is going to achieve. The end result is that even if (as they are) the majority of people vote to bolt it, in reality 95% of those that vote are not actually going to go there.
It's just some fantasy "Oh, one day i'll make the effort". No, they won't. If we get really lucky they'll pop down for one day. If people are going to make the effort to go to bungers they're likely to be skilled enough to climb it in either form, current or bolted.


nmonteith

27-Jun-2012
9:50:56 AM

On 26/06/2012 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>On 22/06/2012 nmonteith wrote:
>>And I say you can only vote if you have actually climbed at these crags
>>and done some of the classics in their current form.
>
>That is rubbish*.
>Would you say the same thing about climbers writing to their politician
>or signing a petition on behalf of keeping it open if the area was under
>threat of closure?
>
>Your stance is hugely biased, as the climbers who identify with Bungonia
>now, are more likely to be in the multipitch-trad-competent &/or adventure
>bracket rather than the single pitch sport mob.
>ODH is right to point out that if the majority who vote happen to come
>from the latter group, that things will change dramatically there if they
>could have their unfettered way.
>
>Have you ever stopped to consider that because you are an active bolter
>that by default your opinion/actions already contribute to the erosion
>of adventure as measured by ye olde skool ethics?

I think you misunderstood why I said that. I wanted people to experience Bungonia in its current state BEFORE voting. I want people to go and climb the classics with the current mix of bolts and trad so they have the experience of both sides of the story. If they can't get up Evolution or Strangeness then it's pretty clear that Bungonia will probably never be for them, no matter how many bolts it has. I am a big advocate for people to actually climb routes before discussing rebolting or retrobolting them.

I find in most cases a route that looks death from the ground will actually be a lot less death in reality. Hidden jugs, sneaky gear, safe falls, easier angle - all factors. 99.9% of first ascentists are not on a death trip. I always climb a route with the old gear before rebolting.
I don't think someone who only climbs in the gym and at Shipley has much 'right' to be voting on what happens at Bungonia. In just the same vein I don't see why a a die hard adventure trad climber has any right to vote on what happens at Nowra. Obviously there are plenty of people who are both - sport climbers and adventure climbers. They can have opinions about anything as they are out there doing it.
Sitting in a rocking chair 100km away and complaining about bolts in an 8m high cave below a suburban street when you have no intention of ever climbing at Nowra seems a bit pointless.


vwills

27-Jun-2012
10:00:42 AM

Wasnt this topic started as a big sh*t stir by ODH on a n obviously quiet day at work? I guess he has succeeded.
I dont think anyone is retrobolting Bungonia. There are some new routes in new territory on shiny rings that are quality climbing (and unique) for Australia, but getting to them and doing them is still quite adventurous and takes a lot more effort than rocking up to Nowra.
I wouldnt call Evolution, Asteroids etc sanitised sports climbs. Most still have trad sections and scary runouts where you could be seriously injured if you slipped.


IdratherbeclimbingM9

27-Jun-2012
10:05:47 AM

You are right vwills, inasmuch as it is a hypothetical put forward by ODH to prove a point, being;
>No, this poll has a point. I'm proving to Neil that if you ask the masses what they want, the majority vote will be to bolt everything.

Like others have posted, mass bolting of Bungonia isn't going to happen any time soon, (& some couldn't care less!)...
BUT, not so hypothetically from my old fart stance of having the benefit of years to look back on, there already are heaps more bolts at Bungonia than when I first "climbed' (if you could call it that), there back in the mid 60's.

The location is a hypothetical, but the incremental creep / attitude change, regarding bolts/bolting is a reality.
I think that if it continues unabated that the next generation will be the poorer in their inheritance of what Australian climbing has to offer unless it is discussed hypothetically at this point in time!


nmonteith

27-Jun-2012
10:07:27 AM

On 27/06/2012 vwills wrote:
>I dont think anyone is retrobolting Bungonia.

I heard a less than amusing story about retrobolting at Bungonia on the weekend. Apparently an old guard local has had a mid life 'see the light glistening off the bolts' moment and went and added a whole bunch of new retro bolts to one of the routes. then had cold feet and removed them all a few weeks later. So in reality it's actually not a hypothetical!

There are 66 messages in this topic.