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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

 Page 2 of 9. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 100 | 101 to 120 | 121 to 140 | 141 to 160 | 161 to 168
Author
Shooting In National Parks - NSW

Climboholic
31/05/2012
2:26:51 PM
On 31/05/2012 Duncan wrote:
>... I'd say it's safe to assume that someone who is paid to
>cull feral animals would be better than some battler.

I'd say it's not safe to make either of your assumptions. That someone getting paid to shoot is a better shot or that they're less likely to be a battler.

The problem is that feral animals don't stop at National Park borders.

All we need to do is place "Keep Out if You Are Feral" signs strategically around national parks (may cause access issues for some climbers). If that fails, give Skippy a shotgun and Blinky a rifle and tell them to defend themselves.
uwhp510
31/05/2012
2:59:01 PM
On 31/05/2012 One Day Hero wrote:
> I wonder how long till the fishing sanctuaries
>get traded away?

They got started on that about a year ago actually...

http://www.mydailynews.com.au/story/2011/04/20/marine-park-plans-suspended-mp-geoff-provest-tweed/

Miguel75
31/05/2012
3:31:24 PM
There are plenty of feral goats in Werribee Gorge, wreaking ecological havoc, that I'd like to see cleared up.
sleake
31/05/2012
3:42:24 PM
On 31/05/2012 ARidgley wrote:
>Sleake, is your gripe a safety issue or an environmental issue?
>
>I'm not a hunter. I just couldn't bring myself to do it. However, I don't
>see any ethical problem with hunting, especially hunting for food. If
>an animal is going to die for my table, I'd rather it have a wild, free
>life first rather than in a pen or cage. That means I should hunt to satisfy
>my own ethic. I'm just too much of a coward.
>
>In my very limited experience, I've found most hunters to be environmentally
>aware and possessing very strict moral and ethical standards. I think
>many (if not most) would be more environmentally aware than your average
>national park tourist.
>
>Feral animals are a blight on our ecosystems. Yes, one way to control
>this would be through professional hunters. However, the NPs don't have
>that sort of money and never will. It's not a strategy that has any hope
>of working. Why not utilise people that want to do the job for free, provided
>they are regulated. I can't tell you what such regulation would look like
>because I'm not a hunter. But if a professional hunter can do it, then
>why not an amateur that sticks to the same regulations?
>
>As for safety, it gives me the willies too. But I admit to being ignorant.
> I'm not aware of the NZ case that you speak of, but no doubt it's a tragedy
>that could have been avoided. I wonder how many tourists in parks like
>Yosemite, Squamish, Zion etc have been taken out by climbers dropping or
>dislodging something. Should we be banned too.
>
>Without looking deeply into the regulations proposed I don't know if it's
>a good idea or not. But I sure can't say it's a bad idea either as there
>seems to be some real benefits if the safety side of things can be controlled.
>
>

Let me clarify my stance a little more.

Although I am somewhat sickened by the pride taken by many hunters in killing something when the odds are somewhat uneven (do it bear grylls style and ill give you cred!) I used to bow-hunt and have shot .22's at a few bunnies, and often spearfish - so no - I have no issue with killing something for food/sport/pest removal etc.

However, I have a little involvement work-wise with National parks as a nerdy biologist, and am becoming frustrated that national parks seem to be more and more for recreation than conservation.

In my view, this move will not affect feral numbers in any significant way.

'Pro hunters' have a job to do - and that is the removal of the pest - eg deer - and will hopefully not descriminate between a buck or doe, and just cull the quota required.

'Amatur hunters' are out for a good time, and will typically be limited to only a few animals, due to restraints such as carrying the meat out, refrigeration, etc etc. Typically they will choose the animal that is most suited to their needs - eg - the biggest Stag. It is not in their interests to wipe out a population by taking the breeding females, so they wont.

That aside, I am more concerned with safety.

In NZ - where hunting on DOC land is generally fair game, I have had one time up scott creek off the copeland valley - bashing through the scrub, scared a herd of thar, seen a few jump in front of me before gunshots rang out and the biggest Thar fell down dead. When I started screaming the house down, the hunter came out - hugely apologetic, but suprised that anyone could possibly be there. He had no idea I was there, and it was the last thing I expected to need to be worried about.

Once hunting is allowed, it become much harder to 'police' guns in national parks. Blanket rules make things much easier, once paperwork is required it gets more complex.

Steve

E. Wells
31/05/2012
3:51:12 PM
I have noticed the river filling with carp, the banks churned up into weed nurseries by ever increasing pig numbers, been bailed up by a razor back, watched the goats totter down the ridges and the foxes clean up the reptiles and I would rather encounter all these things in the wilderness than one hasty hunter. When a dingo crosses your path quickly, how can you tell whether its a feral dog or a dingo?
ARidgley
31/05/2012
3:59:44 PM
Fair points Sleake. Since you are a biologist then that does give greater cred to your argument that it will do no good. I definitely agree that most (ethical) hunters do so for food and won't take many. I guess they would tend to take the young because og their greater table quality, doing little to the breeding stock.

ARidgley
31/05/2012
4:02:50 PM
I doubt all the narive fish, reptiles and other and animals would agree with you Dangermouth. I suppose it depends on your view as to whether National Parks are for wildlife or for us.
citationx
31/05/2012
4:24:04 PM
On 31/05/2012 sleake wrote:
>On 31/05/2012 ARidgley wrote:
>
>'Amatur hunters' are out for a good time, and will typically be limited
>to only a few animals, due to restraints such as carrying the meat out,
>refrigeration, etc etc. Typically they will choose the animal that is most
>suited to their needs - eg - the biggest Stag. It is not in their interests
>to wipe out a population by taking the breeding females, so they wont.

I rambled on about this elsewhere (it was too long) so now that you've brought it up and I feel like i've ranted enough, do you have the actual bill that states that amateur hunters are going to be the ones doing the shooting? (Amateur vs unpaid) (I'm really not taking the piss. I really tried finding the bill to get more info since sick of media beat-ups with emotive language)
Duncan
31/05/2012
4:41:35 PM
Look at you with your "verified facts" and other fancy schmancy garbage.

BlankSlab
31/05/2012
4:54:33 PM
On 31/05/2012 Duncan wrote:
>Look at you with your "verified facts" and other fancy schmancy garbage.

I thought "verified facts" had no place on chockstone....
Estey
31/05/2012
4:58:45 PM
I wonder how many real bogans would actually walk into the more remote areas of the larger National Parks. Lack of vehicle access will probably be a good way of sorting the wheat from the chaff.

Maybe part of the proceeds from the sale of the generators should be allocated to paying for some deer stalkers from the South Island of NZ to come over to give some of our boys ethics lessons.

Maybe part of the proceeds could also be used to pay proffesional shooters to do the job properly.
Mr Poopypants
31/05/2012
5:02:32 PM
Some of you might like to know that at the public meeting for the Dam Cliffs, Cosmic County, Freezer, Railway Cliffs proposed public reserve last Wed. a fellow announced that the Game Council of NSW intends to apply to declare the reserve open to hunting under the current scheme.

Might need to break out the sandstone coloured camo.

Getting to the summit might take on a whole new urgency.

G. :-)
sleake
31/05/2012
5:03:31 PM
Im not much of a biologist im afraid - those that cant do teach - Im in front of a chalkboard now haha - but still have a few nerd connections.... and they are all pretty shocked by it.


Anyway - I think that amatur hunters have some role to play in removing ferals, but if the government was serious about it one pro shooter and a chopper could do more in a day than amatures over the course of a year - my cynical view is that the government is glossing over deeper issues with this angle.
widewetandslippery
31/05/2012
5:21:04 PM
I'm gunna buy a gun.

What's the best for taking out people who sing or use musical instruments in national parks?

ajfclark
31/05/2012
5:24:14 PM
A hammer.
ARidgley
31/05/2012
5:48:24 PM
I just heard an interview with the NSW Minister for the Environment on the radio. The plan as she explained it would be to isolate areas within parks a long time in advance of a proposed cull. The hunters would then be escorted in and remain under supervision (details yet to be finalised). These teams would need to first get some form of accrediation to ensure they knew what they were doing. It would be targetted and run in parallel with other control strategies.

Doesn't seem like open slather to me. Still safety issues?
climberman
31/05/2012
7:11:22 PM
On 31/05/2012 ARidgley wrote:
>I just heard an interview with the NSW Minister for the Environment on
>the radio. The plan as she explained it would be to isolate areas within
>parks a long time in advance of a proposed cull. The hunters would then
>be escorted in and remain under supervision (details yet to be finalised).
> These teams would need to first get some form of accrediation to ensure
>they knew what they were doing. It would be targetted and run in parallel
>with other control strategies.
>
>Doesn't seem like open slather to me. Still safety issues?

How do they know I'm not wandering through there tomorrow ?

Miguel75
31/05/2012
7:38:00 PM
On 31/05/2012 widewetandslippery wrote:
>I'm gunna buy a gun.
>
>What's the best for taking out people who sing or use musical instruments
>in national parks?

I reckon your best bet would be the fully automatic Nerf gun... You could lay waste to the entire pines population and still climb with them in the morning...

Failing that you could opt for a pump action .308...
citationx
31/05/2012
8:06:17 PM
On 31/05/2012 climberman wrote:
>On 31/05/2012 ARidgley wrote:
>
>How do they know I'm not wandering through there tomorrow ?

I guess it's similar to how they advertise other things that are occurring - "1080 baits have been laid in the area - beware". I'm sure they'll give warning at the major entrance points to the specified area.
Of course, for hardarses like you, who i'm sure is now going to ask "what if I decide to walk from a non-standard entry point 2,475km away and don't see the signs" then it will be up to the hunter to make sure that he clearly identifies his target, takes a deep breath with the animal lined up in his sight and a spotter behind him to reassure him that there isn't anything else about to get in the way, exhales slowly and holds his breath right as the last of his breath leaves his body before gently squeezing the trigger (not jerking) so that he has the greatest chance of hitting the animal and nothing else, rather than treating anything that moves in the bush as a clay target and trying to hit it while wildly swinging a 1.2m long rifle around 180 degrees blatting away indiscriminately.

E. Wells
31/05/2012
8:30:22 PM
Sounds like fun. Do you think the bullet hole in the perspex sign at the entrance to rocky creek deliberately where the koala illustration is....do you suppose they took a long deep breath too. Or the blokes that get on the piss then fang about in theyre utes shooting roos on theyre properties at midnight, are they gonna be so frickin consciencious?

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