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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

 Page 2 of 3. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 53
Author
Climbing Training
One Day Hero
10/02/2012
3:14:01 PM
On 10/02/2012 hipdos wrote:
>Start with 15 minutes of bouldering at the end of your climbing gym
>sessions and go from there. In a few months look into some campusing, but
>do your research on injury prevention. I won't say any more than that or
>ODH will have another fit.

Seriously hipdos, what you do for your own training is up to you, but you're too stupid to be handing out advice to others. Really, I mean that. You just don't have the brains to be able to help others with their climbing.......I think its nature, wendy will probably argue that your upbringing is to blame......whatever, the result is the same either way.
Olbert
10/02/2012
3:26:58 PM
I'm gonna have to join the 'no training' brigade!

Climbing is fun. Don't destroy that. (Some people like training - for it's own sake or because it makes them climb better. I don't.)

Muscles gain strength a hell of a lot quicker than tendons. Look at almost any video of hard sport climbers/boulders - almost everybody has tape around their fingers. It's because they've injured their tendons. People who climb on a regular basis above a certain grade have to manage their tendons and tendon injuries - climb enough and it will happen. You don't want to do anything that will increase your risk - getting a tendon injury sucks!

Also, the best thing for climbing is climbing.

It's surprising what you can achieve without training - apparently Mike Law climbed 30's back in the day without training.

One Day Hero
10/02/2012
3:40:54 PM
On 10/02/2012 bigchris wrote:
>
>Not bothered at all by this lol - I just would like to climb mid 20's
>and be decent.
>
O.k., I'll start with this one, cause its where your idea of climbing is furthest out of step with reality.

You just roll that off as if it ain't no thing......."All I want is to be able to cruise my way up mid 20's routes at araps (24, 25, 26)......y'know, I'm not asking for too much"

Fuuuuuuuuuuck! Do you have any idea how few climbers can actually do that? How many people spend years of their life dedicated to this activity and never climb 26? I would guess that three quarters of the people on this forum (whom you're asking for advice) have never and will never climb 26, let alone on gear and in good style!.......because its kinda hard to do.

Allow me to translate your question to another activity.....say, music

grade 30+ = pro muso (making some sort of living)

high 20's = gigging muso who has a dedicated following, plays wicked gigs, and makes 'beer money'

mid 20's = gigging muso who doesn't get paid but people come to the gigs and dig the music

low 20's = gigging muso, but after 3 songs the only people in the room are mates of the band

high teens = the odd gig, but after 3 songs even their mates walk out

low teens = bedroom hacker

Now, with that frame of reference, here is a translation of the climbing question you just asked......

"Hi, I'm getting into drumming, and I want to know how to be better. I don't want to be a pro, just keen to play awesome gigs which go off, and to garner a following for the band. Currently I have a practice pad which I play on twice a week, and I drum on my steering wheel on the way to work. About once a month I borrow a mate's kit for the arvo. So, just wondering what advice people have that'll get me some sweet gigs?"

..............?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
Olbert
10/02/2012
3:46:28 PM
On 10/02/2012 One Day Hero wrote:
>grade 30+ = pro muso (making some sort of living)
>
>high 20's = gigging muso who has a dedicated following, plays wicked gigs,
>and makes 'beer money'
>
>mid 20's = gigging muso who doesn't get paid but people come to the gigs
>and dig the music
>
>low 20's = gigging muso, but after 3 songs the only people in the room
>are mates of the band
>
>high teens = the odd gig, but after 3 songs even their mates walk out
>
>low teens = bedroom hacker

In other words - I rock the gig for no bloody money. That's a rip! Ah well, few grades and I'll start getting paid for this shit.
hipdos
10/02/2012
3:54:09 PM
On 10/02/2012 One Day Hero wrote:
>Seriously hipdos, what you do for your own training is up to you, but
>you're too stupid to be handing out advice to others. Really, I mean that.
>You just don't have the brains to be able to help others with their climbing.......I
>think its nature, wendy will probably argue that your upbringing is to
>blame......whatever, the result is the same either way.

Maybe you need a bex and a lie down?

I'm all for the just climb heaps philosophy. That's what we did when we started out. Kept going like that for a few years and improved nicely. Then we realised that you can do more structured training at the gym, and we were there a lot already, so why not give it a go? Turns out it was fun and made us even better, and was a change from just climbing the walls.

This bloke looks like he already has a bit of mileage under his belt, he wants to climb harder grades and his question was about training. I'm giving the advice I would have appreciated at the same stage. If you don't want to do it then don't, I think almost everyone agrees that climbing needs to be fun. Definitely listen to your body and be aware of potential injuries.
One Day Hero
10/02/2012
3:56:16 PM
Yep, that's how it works Oli.........."just about to crack into paying gigs, it'll happen this year for sure" ;)

ajfclark
10/02/2012
4:08:13 PM
On 10/02/2012 hipdos wrote:
>I'm all for the just climb heaps philosophy. That's what we did when we started out. Kept going like that for a few years and improved nicely.
>
>This bloke looks like he already has a bit of mileage under his belt,

He's been climbing 8 months and so by your own words, climbing heaps will work for him for a few years yet.
One Day Hero
10/02/2012
4:11:12 PM
On 10/02/2012 hipdos wrote:
>
>This bloke looks like he already has a bit of mileage under his belt,
>he wants to climb harder grades and his question was about training. I'm
>giving the advice I would have appreciated at the same stage.

Mileage? Looks to me like he might have done about 8-10 pitches on rock, ever! Maybe 300m all up! You're giving him the shit advice which you would have appreciated, then gone away and injured yourself.

>If you don't
>want to do it then don't, I think almost everyone agrees that climbing
>needs to be fun. Definitely listen to your body and be aware of potential
>injuries.

Christ! So now you're giving advice to a beginner, then adding the clause "If you don't want to do it then don't"..............if he knew what he wanted to do, he wouldn't have asked!
dalai
10/02/2012
4:24:41 PM
On 10/02/2012 hipdos wrote:
>On 10/02/2012 One Day Hero wrote:

>This bloke looks like he already has a bit of mileage under his belt,

8 months climbing with on average one outdoor trip a month is not much... I can't believe I agree again with what ODH is saying (still not keen on how he says it though).

In this short time, the biggest limitation will be techinique. The fact that bigchris says he falls off because he can't pull himself up, shows that he is like most beginners ignoring that most of the movement is generated through the legs and not the arms.

Let him focus on pulling exercises and not technique (campussing for someone just starting out?????) just re-enforces the wrong technique. The longer he focusses on pulling and not technique to push will only make the process of enforcing good technique engrams later take even longer!

At this point, focussing on good technique even when tired is the goal. That way movements with good technique becomes the dominant engram, as under stress we revert to these dominant engrams. So if they are poor movement engrams, once stressed you will climb badly!

So I would be taking a technique class / reading up as much as possible about climbing technique and practice these skills whilst gradually increasing the frequency of your training sessions.
pickles
10/02/2012
4:31:15 PM
It is difficult to do structured training when you dont know what you are supposed to be working on.

Say I have two mates who both want to climb harder sport or trad:

One has bouldered up to V10 but struggles on a 24 sport route. Can do all the moves pretty easily off the rope. (hate to think how shit they are on trad)

Other mate climbs grade 28 but struggles on anything harder than a V4.

Not knowing much more about the two I would say one probably needs to work on technique and endurance if they want to progress as they are clearly strong enough.

The other would probably benefit from power and strength training.

I'll leave it to you to decided which works for which person but the point I am trying to dance around is that if you haven't done enough climbing to know what your key strengths and weaknesses are then get out and climb as any other training wont be as productive.

Wendy
10/02/2012
4:39:24 PM
Hold press! Momentous event about to occur!

I agree with Damo.

Fck, I can't believe I said that. It's only because he got in first and said what I would have ....

I haven't done a moments fingerboard training in my life. In fact, I have done bugger all training of any sort ever. I just go climbing. If I want a work out, i do more climbing. This terribly painful program of just going climbing has actually got me to climbing trad in the mid 20s. When I first started climbing, I couldn't hold my body weight on my arms on a monster jug. You really could not have started climbing much weaker than I was. With in 6 months, i was leading 19 and another year or so, 22. All from just going climbing. Gyms didn't exist. Fingerboards? I don't know that anyone had heard of them ... All this talk of training for beginners is nonsense. All they need to do is go climbing. Watch good climbers. Concentrate on how they are climbing rather than just struggling through things, so they can practice precise movement, weighting their feet etc etc. Try out a range of styles on a bunch of different rock types.

1 day a month is nothing. If you want to climb well, it does take some time and effort commitment. 2 days a week on rock would be a good start. i don't know to what degree I think gyms help your actual performance on rock - i certainly see a massive discrepancy between people's indoor and outdoor performances. They are also easy places to get injured. Bouldering is an easy way to get injured. Campussing is a reallyreally easy way to get injured. Mileage on easy to moderate rock is pretty hard to injure yourself on.
One Day Hero
10/02/2012
4:42:45 PM
On 10/02/2012 dalai wrote:
>
>I can't believe I agree again with what ODH is saying (still not keen on
>how he says it though).
>
Ah c'mon dalai, you must have liked the music analogy......I don't think that was offensive, was it?
hipdos
10/02/2012
5:14:45 PM
Ah well it looks like the consensus is my advice was crap. Mind you I could argue it was taken out of context, referred to selectively... Alright it was pretty crap. Sorry bigchris if I almost made you embark on an intensive training program that would have resulted in a career ending injury.

Good fun getting ODH worked up tho! Sorry that I may have played a part in people agreeing with him..
One Day Hero
10/02/2012
6:15:05 PM
On 10/02/2012 Wendy wrote:
>I agree with Damo.
>
>Fck, I can't believe I said that.

Oh.......how boring! :) Here, let me introduce a bit of stuff to disagree about.

>This terribly painful program of
>just going climbing has actually got me to climbing trad in the mid 20s.

Hmmmm, do Wendy and I climb mid 20's? Well, it kinda depends on your defenition of "climbing"

Here's a bit of a rundown of the climbing me and Wendy have done together over the last year;

-a couple of days at Taipan......as I recall we both got pounded in the arse by the respective mid 20's routes we were trying

-a soft mid 20's route at araps which Wendy dogged the gear into, then ticked as a sport route....I ticked it as a sport route by copying exactly what Wendy had done, thus negating any need for thinking.

-I tried to onsight a classic 24 and got so pumped that I couldn't see anymore, got scared cause I'd kooked the gear a bit so downclimbed, whimpered, and called for take.......Wendy refused to lead after my display, so tried it on toprope.

-Wendy directed me to the softest 24 at the mount (its good to know locals), so that I could onsight something that is officially in the right grade range, but its really only 22.

-We got on a classic 26 which we'd both ticked previously. Wendy went up to run the gear in and was unable to do so, I went up to run the gear in and got so pumped that I had to sit on the rope and pant for about half an hour before I could dog my way to the top.

-We went up to Skyline walls to try a mini 26. The start looked hard and gearless and the landing is as bad as it gets........we elected to rap the gear in. Once the gear was in, we figured that there was a toprope set up already so we might as well use it. Once we'd worked out every move in minute detail on toprope, we went and recruited more climbers to join the siege. Once we had a big enough siege posse and a forest of gear and long slings in place, we both gloriously ticked the route :/

-Wendy came to canberra. I showed her a classic 24 which I had finally done (in quite bad style) after years of being too scared to even try it. Wendy declined to lead it although she strolled up the topropable top half like it wasn't even there.

-We laid siege to an oldschool grade 22 crack, Wendy eventually ticked it nicely (after 2 days), I was unable to do so and had to resort to 'ticking' it on Wendy's pre-placed gear.

Anyway, all tremendous fun, and for most of those routes thats probably how most of the 'ascents' are recorded. However, not exactly cruising mid 20's in the style which bigchris imagines himself climbing some day.

My criteria on style is always; "What would you say if you saw someone pulling this shit on a grade 15?" And for me and Wendy (and most other climbers) on stuff in the mid 20's.........you'd shake your head in dismay!

:)
hipdos
10/02/2012
6:28:03 PM
well clearly you both need to do some proper training
Wendy
10/02/2012
6:44:55 PM
On 10/02/2012 One Day Hero wrote:
>On 10/02/2012 Wendy wrote:
>>I agree with Damo.
>>
>>Fck, I can't believe I said that.
>
>Oh.......how boring! :) Here, let me introduce a bit of stuff to disagree
>about.
>
>>This terribly painful program of
>>just going climbing has actually got me to climbing trad in the mid 20s.
>
>Hmmmm, do Wendy and I climb mid 20's? Well, it kinda depends on your defenition
>of "climbing"
>
>Here's a bit of a rundown of the climbing me and Wendy have done together
>over the last year;
>
>-a couple of days at Taipan......as I recall we both got pounded in the
>arse by the respective mid 20's routes we were trying
>
>-a soft mid 20's route at araps which Wendy dogged the gear into, then
>ticked as a sport route....I ticked it as a sport route by copying exactly
>what Wendy had done, thus negating any need for thinking.
>
>-I tried to onsight a classic 24 and got so pumped that I couldn't see
>anymore, got scared cause I'd kooked the gear a bit so downclimbed, whimpered,
>and called for take.......Wendy refused to lead after my display, so tried
>it on toprope.
>
>-Wendy directed me to the softest 24 at the mount (its good to know locals),
>so that I could onsight something that is officially in the right grade
>range, but its really only 22.
>
>-We got on a classic 26 which we'd both ticked previously. Wendy went
>up to run the gear in and was unable to do so, I went up to run the gear
>in and got so pumped that I had to sit on the rope and pant for about half
>an hour before I could dog my way to the top.
>
>-We went up to Skyline walls to try a mini 26. The start looked hard and
>gearless and the landing is as bad as it gets........we elected to rap
>the gear in. Once the gear was in, we figured that there was a toprope
>set up already so we might as well use it. Once we'd worked out every move
>in minute detail on toprope, we went and recruited more climbers to join
>the siege. Once we had a big enough siege posse and a forest of gear and
>long slings in place, we both gloriously ticked the route :/
>
>-Wendy came to canberra. I showed her a classic 24 which I had finally
>done (in quite bad style) after years of being too scared to even try it.
>Wendy declined to lead it although she strolled up the topropable top half
>like it wasn't even there.
>
>-We laid siege to an oldschool grade 22 crack, Wendy eventually ticked
>it nicely (after 2 days), I was unable to do so and had to resort to 'ticking'
>it on Wendy's pre-placed gear.
>
>Anyway, all tremendous fun, and for most of those routes thats probably
>how most of the 'ascents' are recorded. However, not exactly cruising mid
>20's in the style which bigchris imagines himself climbing some day.
>
>My criteria on style is always; "What would you say if you saw someone
>pulling this shit on a grade 15?" And for me and Wendy (and most other
>climbers) on stuff in the mid 20's.........you'd shake your head in dismay!
>
>:)

Oh, fck, i can't even find something to disagree about there ...
Wendy
10/02/2012
6:46:41 PM
On 10/02/2012 hipdos wrote:
>well clearly you both need to do some proper training

will a finger board give me bigger ovaries?
hipdos
10/02/2012
6:51:48 PM
On 10/02/2012 Wendy wrote:
>On 10/02/2012 hipdos wrote:
>>well clearly you both need to do some proper training
>
>will a finger board give me bigger ovaries?

of course! but campusing even more so
Wendy
10/02/2012
6:58:49 PM
is it all that risk taking with my finger and elbow tendons? So I gradually increase my tolerance to risk taking?

Pat
10/02/2012
7:15:06 PM
On 10/02/2012 One Day Hero wrote:

>Now, with that frame of reference, here is a translation of the climbing
>question you just asked......
>
>"Hi, I'm getting into drumming, and I want to know how to be better. I
>don't want to be a pro, just keen to play awesome gigs which go off, and
>to garner a following for the band. Currently I have a practice pad which
>I play on twice a week, and I drum on my steering wheel on the way to work.
>About once a month I borrow a mate's kit for the arvo. So, just wondering
>what advice people have that'll get me some sweet gigs?"

The really funny thing about your comment ODH is that bigchris is a professional drummer so you have inadvertently told him how to train in a way that he totally understands - so maybe he will actually climb 26 eventually. I hope I am there to see it.

 Page 2 of 3. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 53
There are 53 messages in this topic.

 

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