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Rappeling with a Figure 8 device.

kassysimon

13-Jan-2009
2:57:52 PM

I remember my first abseil lesson using a Figure 8 - "The sausages go IN the frypan and around the handle" - so the rope goes down through the big ring and up over the little ring. This is how i have always done it.

But in viewing the Petzl and Black Diamond user manuals for Figure 8's, i found a stunning contradiction.

Black Diamond shows the rope going DOWN through the big ring whilst Petzl illustrates the rope coming UP through the big ring and down over the little ring.

Does it really make a difference which way it is done?

Which way do you do it?

Here are the links

http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/pdf/s08/MM5853_F_Belay_devicesWEB.pdf

http://en.petzl.com/ProduitsServices/D01D02%20HUITD01600-G_1.pdf

Thanks

simey

13-Jan-2009
3:33:13 PM

On 13/01/2009 kassysimon wrote:
>Does it really make a difference which way it is done?

Not really. Expert abseilers will tell you that if the rope goes up through the big ring and down over the little ring then there is a chance that the rope could catch as you edge over the cliff and be flipped into a larks foot which will then lock the rope.

It would be a highly unlikely scenario and the same thing could still happen if you have it rigged the other way due to some other unlikely scenario.

A more likely situation is getting clothing or hair stuck in the abseil device which would result in the same problem of being stuck and unable to descend.

If you know how to use prusiks then you will be able to deal with any of these scenarios.

Maybe someone from the Blueys knows more, given that it is the abseiling capital of Australia.

earwig

13-Jan-2009
4:31:31 PM

I was taught to have my figure 8 connected my carabiner through the big end. When the time came to use it, bring the rope up through the big hole and then around the handle, then reconnect the figure 8 through the little hole - so you can't drop it - it's always connected to either your harness or the rope.

Ends up with the rope going down through the big ring and up over the little ring.

sticky

13-Jan-2009
6:39:31 PM

Or you could use an belay device.

climbau

14-Jan-2009
7:50:55 AM

As a former Instructor and Guide (yes Simey, in the Blueys!), I saw and dealt with first hand the
consequences of having the rope larks foot on a figure 8. Nothing bad happened, but it was a hassle
and
freaked the punter out for the rest of the day. Potentially in a canyon situation the consequences could
be more severe than just being an inconvenience. Since that day I always made sure that the
"sausages
went into the frypan and around the handle". Thousands of punters later, I never had it happen again.
I see most potential for it occurring when abseiling over undercut starts (especially with people less
than
comfortable with the situation), and in caves where you have to abseil through a tight restricition(?).
Examples would be Blowfly cave at Bungonia, the "Coffin" at Diamond bay in Sydney, Juggler canyon
3rd abseil (the one off the tree up high on the left, which I am led to believe now has a sling up high
now).

Sticky:
Twice I had things catch in a descender. First time was as a beginner belaying with a HB Sherriff and
catching a lead fall. Poor technique(holding the rope too close to the device, which I see many
beginners
doing) lead to my thumb being dragged into the top of the device. Nearly broke it, but luckily held the
fall
and only walked away with a very sore and bruised thumb. Plus a bit more knowledge.
second was the classic hair in the figure 8. Looked very painful for the punter, needless to say I
double
checked every person from then on!!!

gfdonc

14-Jan-2009
9:08:40 AM

Just because of the topic, I feel obligated to remind people of possible failure when using a figure-8 for abseiling:
www.theuiaa.org/upload_area/files/1/Karabiner_Breakings_when_using_a_Figure-of-eight.pdf

On the subject of catching stuff, my t-shirt wound its way into my figure-8 on a free abseil once, without prussics it was very problematic to extract myself.

meinmuk

14-Jan-2009
10:33:15 PM

On 14/01/2009 gfdonc wrote:
I feel obligated to remind people of possible failure when using a figure-8 for abseiling:

I would like to point out that "obliged" does the job very nicely.

(Nothing personal Mr gfdonc, the spreading use of this Americanism just does my head in!)

BlueyCanyons

15-Jan-2009
8:55:01 AM

stick with the way you where shown, for the reason other people have mentioned or better still get rid of the figure 8 and buy something else.

Figures eights twist your rope and wear it out quicker than inline decenders.

I use this for canyoning, the pit stop at the bottom of the page

http://www.pfh.com.au/outdoor.htm#raprak

I before anyone mentions it I am aware it cross loads the gate, which is why I use a steel Carabiner and replace it often.

The benefits are it is small, unlike a rack, does not twist the rope, and you do not need to unclip it to hook up, unlike a figure 8 which if droped at the bottom of a waterfall may make an itilian hitgh your only way down.

gfdonc

15-Jan-2009
9:31:20 AM

On 14/01/2009 meinmuk wrote:
>(Nothing personal Mr gfdonc, the spreading use of this Americanism just
>does my head in!)

No offense taken. Happy to be corrected, although I gain some excuse for having lived over there for 5 years.

beuregaurd

15-Jan-2009
3:30:43 PM

it's impressive how hot the figure 8 can get. Whereas many many belay devices don't get hot at all. Makes one wonder where the energy goes. Possibly friction in the rope core. Are figure 8s easier on the rope?

DanNQ

15-Jan-2009
10:27:34 PM

Figure eights arent real good for your rope, they twist the rope 1.5 times for every metre descended and put the rope through a lot of friction.

The friction point in other devices still gets hot its just that it is usually the carabiner that is exposed to the most friction.

There are 11 messages in this topic.