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Chockstone Forum - Gear Lust / Lost & Found

Rave About Your Rack Please do not post retail SPAM.

Author
Replacing nuts with knots
another dave
3/04/2014
12:17:45 PM
Yes you heard me. I have a vague plan of attempting some easier lines at araps with a selection of knots for pro.

I was planning on getting different sized cords and tying overhand knots and monkey fists in them. With the intension of putting round rocks inside the monkey fists of the bigger sizes.

Is anybody aware of other types of knots that may be useful?
Is anybody aware of what the breaking strength a monkey fist would be?

Eduardo Slabofvic
3/04/2014
1:08:58 PM
I Like the idea.

I recon you could try combinations of knots, like putting an overhand knot below a larger knot so as to create a kind of tapering effect, like wedge shape. It could go in a bit better (I don't really know - I'm improvising here).

Maybe try doing a half fisherman's on a single strand, then make a loop in the end to attache a biner. I'm imagining something that looks like a rope version of a bashie.

You could also try using tube tape as well, as that could give different sized knots by putting in an extra turn or two.

I recon that if you were to use a single strand, you would want to leave a pretty good length in the tail.

I have no idea on the breaking strain of anything. I recon squishing would be more of an issue than breaking.

I recommend filming your endeavors and entering it in Goatfest (or the Darwin awards)

ambyeok
3/04/2014
1:36:30 PM
Cool sounds fun. If your trying the easier lines then your very unlikely to fall, if your very unlikely to fall then you dont need the knots you can just solo. I guess it depends what your definition of easy line is. Do you expect to fall on these knots?
Dave J
3/04/2014
1:40:50 PM
On 3/04/2014 Edward Oslabofvic wrote:
>I recommend filming your endeavors and entering it in Goatfest (or the
>Darwin awards)

I second this.

That would make an excellent little film.

Eduardo Slabofvic
3/04/2014
1:46:12 PM
On 3/04/2014 ambyeok wrote:
>Cool sounds fun. If your trying the easier lines then your very unlikely
>to fall, if your very unlikely to fall then you dont need the knots you
>can just solo.

Yeah, I agree. You can't go to all this trouble then not fall off. I suggest you really go for it. Pick something that you'll get a goodly way up before you have to put it all on the line.
mikllaw
3/04/2014
2:03:02 PM
I would watch a film of someone leading wizard of ice on knots, particularly if they tie them en-route.
stuart h
3/04/2014
2:05:24 PM
Probably not a surprise that the strength of cord etc used in jammed knots has been looked at in Germany: http://www.joergbrutscher.homepage.t-online.de/knotene.htm

I have abseiled off jammed knots several times but have rarely used them as pro while leading. As you would expect, a lot fiddlier (sp?) than placing wires. Usually I have used variations of fishermens in cord and overhands in sling. As suggested above, I have found it good to tie smaller knots close in front of bigger knots to increase the jamming/wedging effect. To lead anything steep you will want plenty of various size knots tied in advance but I can't really picture a convenient way to organise a big rack. Have fun.

Superstu
3/04/2014
2:11:00 PM
I climbed on a rack of tied knots in East Germany. Google climbing in the elbesandsteingebirge and there should be heaps on the various knots to tie. You could buy ready prepared sling knot racks in the climbing shop in bad schandau!

You weren't allowed to use any cams or nuts but spaced giant mother of all ring bolts you could put your arm into were ok. Just weird.

One thing I do remember was the rock was kind of weirdly suited to this silliness with knots. The sandstone formed lots of scoopy holes in the crack lines so a knot ball wedged in one kind of made sense. There were also lots of "sand uhrs" ... Wine glass shaped threads to tie off.

The rock was soft and you weren't allowed to climb after it rained. I think the soft rock was partly the reason for the knot system, nuts and cams would have damaged it. Food for thought.

I doubt the arapiles sinker nut placement will be particularly welcoming to knot pro, but I gather routes like bard were put up with nothing more than a few slings as pro.

another dave
3/04/2014
2:21:18 PM
On 3/04/2014 stuart h wrote:
>Probably not a surprise that the strength of cord etc used in jammed knots
>has been looked at in Germany: http://www.joergbrutscher.homepage.t-online.de/knotene.htm

I found that link else where. It suggests that anything anything 4 mm and below is aid only and you should not use them as single strands are also aid only.
I can't tell which is the best knot as my german is well crap.
I am also aware that that article was written in 1997

I think 1" webbing might be good for those thinner sizes as you can slot it in.

I think I will refrain from wizard of Ice. I almost wet my self last time.
Though I am open to suggestions for lines somewhere in the sub 19 grades. Clean falls (for testing naturally) can be done on passive pro only???

Superstu
3/04/2014
2:23:02 PM
Oh the other thing I remember being useful was the long thin wooden poking stick you carried on a long sling, for making those knots snug and tight. A nut key would do the job but for purity you should make your own out of wood.
One Day Hero
3/04/2014
4:02:34 PM
I belayed an east german bloke who took a huge whipper off Birdman onto a small knot (I think it was 3mm, and tied in a fishermans at the 'nut end' and a figure 8 at the clipping end). It held without problem, which was quite eye opening for me.

I have to agree with the others, tooling around with knots is worthless showboating unless you actually man up and take some falls.

The good Dr
3/04/2014
4:53:37 PM
The tape slings used in the Elbsandstein vary a lot in the coarseness of the weave and the type of material so that they provide differing levels of flexibility, shock absorption and surface contact. The monkeys fists made in Hohenstein that I have seen also are not purely round, but oval so they have more placement options. The classic way to rack them is to larks foot them through the gear loop on your harness as they are generally longish and hang down a fair way if on a biner. They are long to help stop them flicking out!! That is not too difficult. Tying an overhand knot with one hand whilst on lead is another trick altogether and crazy to watch. Use your teeth to untie them.

I have met a number of Germans who have cliimbed all sorts of stuff at Arapiles on knots. If you can find a mentor, do so ... could be a good learning experience.
Colg
3/04/2014
10:17:39 PM
I spent 3 and a half years in Dresden climbing well over 1000 routes in the Elbe. Having picked up a few tricks I would be more than happy to show you.
Tapes work well with just a tape knot. And various size slings with over hand and figure of 8 knots. Then there are other tricks to cam figure 8 knots and so forth.
What I can say is the sandstone is a lot softer in the most part and a lot courser. I found the gear east to place and to work well. One more thing have the knots loosely tyed.

Miguel75
3/04/2014
11:19:08 PM
I climbed with (next to) a European dude at camels hump who used knotted cord and was pretty smooth. He climbed Poxbow and a few others in the 17-20 range...
another dave
6/04/2014
9:41:28 PM
On 3/04/2014 Colg wrote:
>I spent 3 and a half years in Dresden climbing well over 1000 routes in
>the Elbe. Having picked up a few tricks I would be more than happy to show
>you.
>Tapes work well with just a tape knot. And various size slings with over
>hand and figure of 8 knots. Then there are other tricks to cam figure 8
>knots and so forth.
>What I can say is the sandstone is a lot softer in the most part and a
>lot courser. I found the gear east to place and to work well. One more
>thing have the knots loosely tyed.

Could you post a few pics?
It would be awesome learning about new pieces of pro and ways to use it.
I've mucked about with ballnuts and tricams and went so far as to buy them and try them out without having ever seen them.

It sounds like there are a heap of tricks out there to learn about placing knots.

If anybody is keen I would love to learn more about using knots as pro. If I get enough info I may try to put together a page about it.

There are 15 messages in this topic.

 

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