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Chockstone Forum - Gear Lust / Lost & Found

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 Page 1 of 2. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 27
Author
JetBoil Fuel
Scottf
29/01/2011
8:07:01 AM
Was buying a new canister for my jet boil and saw that kovea and another brand had a canister that looked liked it would fit. Anyone tried any of the other brands? They are half the price of the jet boil. The only problem I could see is that they dont pack down into the jetboil cup.
paul
29/01/2011
10:29:34 AM
On 29/01/2011 Scottf wrote:
>Was buying a new canister for my jet boil and saw that kovea and another
>brand had a canister that looked liked it would fit. Anyone tried any of
>the other brands? They are half the price of the jet boil. The only problem
>I could see is that they dont pack down into the jetboil cup.

Yes they are compatible, look on the side of the can and they will state the fuel mix so you see how they differ.
robertsonja
29/01/2011
3:27:51 PM
I never find much difference in burn times or performance between the brands and you often find the cheaper brands can be almost half the price. As the jetboil does not have a regulator the larger cans loose performance towards the end of the can so you will find the mid size cans more effective.
mik
29/01/2011
4:55:33 PM
All the screw on types seem to be compatible MSR/Snowpeak/Jetboil/Kovea/primus.

As written in a few other threads ppl have various preferences performance/price/packaging etc so choose what you like. Some work better than others in diff conditions due to mix. Snowpeak is my preference anytime.

Some warranties are void if you have a problem and have used different brands of fuel canister, jetboil seem to be a bit pedantic about this.

Andrew_M
29/01/2011
5:03:30 PM
OK, a question for you guys who use jetboil or similar systems, are they actually worth the extra weight? I did some back of the evelope calculations a while back and came up with them being heavier than a similar non heat exchanger system for anything under 4-5 days (single person no melt).

Bascially there doesn't seem to be any reliable data on how much more efficient are these systems are compared to non HE systems. I spent a long time online trying to find this but came up with nothing - only a vague "50% increase in efficiency" statement that could just be myth. There were lots of people wanking on about boil time, but who gives a rats arse about whether you have your soup in 2.2 or 2.8 minutes? Any of you ever tried a head to head comparison with non HE systems for fuel use?
Paul
29/01/2011
10:10:39 PM
>Bascially there doesn't seem to be any reliable data on how much more
>efficient are these systems are compared to non HE systems. I spent a long
>time online trying to find this but came up with nothing - only a vague
>"50% increase in efficiency" statement that could just be myth. There were
>lots of people wanking on about boil time, but who gives a rats arse about
>whether you have your soup in 2.2 or 2.8 minutes? Any of you ever tried
>a head to head comparison with non HE systems for fuel use?

In my experiences nothing beats MSR shellite stoves for weight of fuel used, although the weight of the stove is heavier.


My home made hanging stove (made from an old primus one) used to boil a litre in about 12 minutes in its original form, after the modifications to turn it into a hanging stove there was less heat lost out the sides and boil time for 1 litre went down to 5 minutes which is close to a jet boil.


On a week long trip I don't think that there was more than about 5 minutes in burn times between my primus hanging stove and a jet boil when both using identical kovea fuel canisters. If both stoves let the fuel come out at the max rate which the canister will allow (an asumption) then burn time on max heat will be about the same, which makes boil time a usefull comparison for measuring heat and efficency.
patto
30/01/2011
3:36:56 AM
Several years ago I saw some quite thorough analysis of the weights of different cooking methods.

Metho with a compact stove for a couple of days, gas for a few more days and shellite for the 8+ days. This makes sense to me.

As far as Jetboil goes I struggle to see how the extra weight of that metal and insulation will be worth in in weight.
Paul
30/01/2011
9:57:43 AM
When I used a trangia stove i normally got about 5 days off a litre of fuel, gas canister stove about 4 days out of a canister. shellite stove and a litre of shellite last me about 14 days
brendan
30/01/2011
9:19:05 PM
On 29/01/2011 Andrew_M wrote:
>OK, a question for you guys who use jetboil or similar systems, are they
>actually worth the extra weight? I did some back of the evelope calculations
>a while back and came up with them being heavier than a similar non heat
>exchanger system for anything under 4-5 days (single person no melt).

What do you want to use the jetboil for? yes a jetboil is worth the extra weight (what are you comparing it to btw) if you are using it for alpine/bigwall climbing as you can hold the pot/stove unit in your hands, you can hang the thing up and its efficient, if your going bushwalking its probably not necessary but its upto you
mik
1/02/2011
9:59:00 PM
Here is a well worn thread from ski.com.au about stove comparisons in cold conditions.

http://forums.ski.com.au/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1146547&page=3

This info may be useful. I say buy/borrow one of each and stuff around with them till you find what you like for what trip you are doing.

Everyone has an opinion, so someone will always disagree with your choice.

The heat exchange stoves do help with efficient fuel consumption, but as always the variable may include, length of trip, food type, terrain/altitude, fuel mix, colour preference, brand visiblity, hard core points for older gear, does your expresso fit on it....
One Day Hero
1/02/2011
10:31:48 PM
On 29/01/2011 mik wrote:

>Some work better than others in diff conditions
>due to mix. Snowpeak is my preference anytime.
>
>Some warranties are void if you have a problem and have used different
>brands of fuel canister, jetboil seem to be a bit pedantic about this.

I love how some people can develop brand loyalty to products which simply don't vary beween brands.

My rule of thumb is; the less atoms in the molecules you are buying, the less potential there is for clever engineering to make one brand better than another.

e.g. Bottled water - 3 atoms per molecule "ooh, I hate Mt Franklin, Evian tastes so much better!".....................??????? 2xH + 1xO = its all the farkin same!

another e.g. Cannister gas - 2 molecules (one has 11 atoms, the other has 14, there's only 2 types of atoms)..........the only possible way to vary the product from one brand to the other is to vary the ratio of the mix........and that is neither difficult nor expensive! Therefore, cannister gas brand-snobs are utterly utterly full of shit and engage in a most amusing form of self deception!
mik
2/02/2011
10:06:29 AM
I think it prudent to ignore the self humiliating statements from ODH.

Fuel usage and mix is an important factor in selecting the right stove for your trips.

Snow peak and now a few other companies are making different fuel mix. I am most familiar with SP stuff. the red is 20%propane80%isobutane and the gold label is 15%prop%85isobut and recommended for conditions down to -10deg.

but as always you will try a bunch of gear and work out what you do and dont like, go for it and let the interested ppl know what you prefer.
One Day Hero
3/02/2011
4:01:07 AM
On 2/02/2011 mik wrote:
>Fuel usage and mix is an important factor in selecting the right stove
>for your trips.
>
Cause all your trips are so incredibly hardcore, right? What cracks me up most about the 'fast and light crowd' is how much time and money they spend worrying about the 'light' part, and how often they are still unable to go 'fast' cause that requires skills and fitness rather than cash!

>Snow peak and now a few other companies are making different fuel mix.
>I am most familiar with SP stuff. the red is 20%propane80%isobutane and
>the gold label is 15%prop%85isobut and recommended for conditions down
>to -10deg.
>
I just buy the cheap stuff (Kovea?). Its about half the price of snowpeak red and chemically identical!!........Allow me to say that another way, you couldn't tell the difference if you had a farking lab, let alone when you're cooking dinner!!!

Never seen the snowpeak gold, sounds like wank, and I bet its double the price again (for 5% extra of the 14 atom molecule)......do you do expeditions hardcore enough to notice any difference? I have my doubts

>but as always you will try a bunch of gear and work out what you do and
>dont like, go for it and let the interested ppl know what you prefer.

Anyone claiming to be able to tell the difference between two brands of 80/20 isobutane/propane is full of shit!
One Day Hero
3/02/2011
4:08:03 AM
On 29/01/2011 robertsonja wrote:
>As
>the jetboil does not have a regulator the larger cans loose performance
>towards the end of the can so you will find the mid size cans more effective.

As long as there is still liquid in the can, the pressure won't vary. Once all the liquid is gone, you have shit all fuel left anyway. The above advice is silly, the largest cans will give you the most energy/weight.........but its only the top and bottom of the can that you're saving on, so actually just buy whats cheapest.
Marssan
3/02/2011
7:15:00 AM
On 3/02/2011 One Day Hero wrote:

>As long as there is still liquid in the can, the pressure won't vary.

No

This is only true at constant temperature. Evaporating gas draws heat from the can faster than the can can draw heat from the environment, net effect is cooling of the can and drop in the vapour pressure in the can. It's the whole reason why we put propane in the mix cos its vapour pressure stays high despite decrease in temp.

Having said that, i agree with there being bugger all difference between 15 and 20% propane mixes for Australia conditions.
patto
3/02/2011
8:18:13 AM
On 3/02/2011 One Day Hero wrote:
>Cause all your trips are so incredibly hardcore, right? What cracks me
>up most about the 'fast and light crowd' is how much time and money they
>spend worrying about the 'light' part, and how often they are still unable
>to go 'fast' cause that requires skills and fitness rather than cash!
>

Hehe...

I'm fast and heavy. (~5kph with pack is pretty fast enough i reckon). But last month changed things. After the pain I endured in my hips the first day of carrying 34kg and the lack of general joy of having a heavy pack I have now decided to take some tips from the ultra light freaks. :-D

So I'm going to drop the cash on some new equipment. But it probably is about time. Almost nothing I own is less that 10 years old. I'll probably keep the whispe light in the kit but cut down on other stuff. I can start by saving 1.5kg with a new pack! :-)
One Day Hero
3/02/2011
10:53:48 AM
On 3/02/2011 Marssan wrote:
>
>This is only true at constant temperature. Evaporating gas draws heat
>from the can faster than the can can draw heat from the environment, net
>effect is cooling of the can and drop in the vapour pressure in the can.
>It's the whole reason why we put propane in the mix cos its vapour pressure
>stays high despite decrease in temp.
>
If its so cold that the isobutane won't boil, you need a heat exchanger or a liquid fuel stove anyway...........but honestly, who wants to be cooking outside in -10degrees? Just lie in your sleeping bag and have chocolate for dinner!

Turns out that the expensive cans aren't any better in low temps, they just have thinner walls so you pay extra money to save a bit of weight on steel.
mik
3/02/2011
11:59:08 AM
i think you should tell us more about your opinions ODH. they are entertaining, slanderous and imaginative. good for a laugh.

One Day Hero
3/02/2011
12:50:37 PM
On 3/02/2011 mik wrote:
>i think you should tell us more about your opinions ODH. they are entertaining,
>slanderous and imaginative. good for a laugh.
>
No,no, enough about me. I want you to tell us all the advantages of S.P. 80/20 gas over Kovea 80/20 gas. Your ideas on this subject are entertaining, imaginative and completely out of touch with the real world. good for a forehead-slap.

ajfclark
3/02/2011
1:22:50 PM
While looking for other things, I found this comparison of the Jetboil PCS to PocketRocket and GigaPower: http://thehowzone.com/how/jetboil/

 Page 1 of 2. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 27
There are 27 messages in this topic.

 

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