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fall at ton sai 14-Jan-2004 At 1:09:19 PM shmalec

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it doesn't pay to attract the general beachgoing sunloving holiday makers to great climbing locations with lots of bolts and cheap hire gear.
a note on the cross section strength thing.....I think its more related to bend radius than flattening or squashing of the rope. The outside fibres of the rad must travel further and therefore take most of the load. Fig 8 has slightly larger rads and squashes a bit (absorbing energy) so is meant to be a little stronger than the bowline. But the rad on your biners is probably smaller still and whose ever heard of either knot actually breaking anyway. My partner's fig 8 came undone once halfway up a climb as a result of not dressing it or tightening it. So use whichever you like, just tie it properly and use a stopper knot.
How do you tie a bowline on the bight without putting your body (or the rest of the rope) thru the final loop? or do you use a biner?