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mt aspiring 2-Feb-2005 At 6:15:49 PM animaland

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On Aspiring...

The Ramp I feel is under-estimated in the sense that it is not "easy ground" when the snow is soft. About
a third of the way down from the top it is actually pretty steep, often with an icy underlayer (even in late
afternoon conditions) and then gets coated with the soft surface melted snows of summer. Hence the
times I've come down this way I think it was best to either pitch it properly or take the NW route. More
importantly, easy or not easy, a slip is fatal - there is no room for such a mistake.

As for avalanche danger on the ramp - correct me if I'm wrong but I don't know of anybody being killed by
such things during summer on the Ramp. Does anybody have any record of this? There is a handy little
book on NZ avalanche accidents - does anybody have it?

Very late in a warm day it is true that an occassional rock may come down there pretty fast and perhaps
that's the reason people wish to hurry the ramp... but to be honest in my *opinion* (just an opinion!), an
unbelayed hurry on the ramp in late afternoon conditions is asking for trouble from a simple slip, much
more than it is asking for trouble to pitch it out and cop a rock. Of course its all a different proposition on
the morning of a good freeze. I quite agree - its got to be the call of the climber who is actually standing
there! Any further info./ideas on this are welcome.

On Cascade Saddle:

Yes, DoC warns of the seriousness of the crossing in poor weather and on snow or wet grass. *But* my
gripe with their portrayal of the route is the whole thing is signposted with little green and yellow signs at
the carpark and out the back of Aspiring Hut that say "Cascade Saddle" just like any tramping route. This
advertising of a route allows unprepared parties to treat it like a tramp and ignore the warnings ("It won't
happen to me, I'm an experienced tramper. How hard can it be?").

I reckon remove the yellow and green signs (there is no sign saying "Bonar glacier, 3 hrs"), do not list
Cascade Saddle as a tramp but as an alpine crossing in climbing guidebooks. Take it off the main DoC
boards etc. When a tramper gets to the dangerous bit, without alpine experience I don't feel most of them
are qualified to make the "go/no-go" decision. I can imagine them thinking "Oh, its just a little bit of snow,
we'll be OK"... a decision that takes much experience on snow to be able to make - something not all
trampers possess.

Imagine if "Tip-Toe_Ridge" at Araps had a little green sign pointing to it for everybody to see. Do you think
visitors would want to climb it? Do you think warnings about how dangerous the route is in the wet would
stop them? I doubt it. Do you think a warning saying you may need to bring a rope would help? They'd see
some guy solo the route and think "I can do that! If there's a sign this way it must be pretty safe or they'd
have not sign posted it! Surely!?" Hmmm.

How do I support this belief... ?

Now to be perfectly honest, I make these remarks on Cascade Saddle having never done the route myself
but having been out that way in the West Mat. valley several times... during which I have often (maybe 5
or 6 times?) been asked about the feasability of such-and-such a person doing the saddle route. Always
the people that ask me are those that shouldn't be on the route. They have seen the sign and think "Oooh,
that'd make a fun trip for a good view". A classic example was a young couple I met there a few weeks
ago. They had read the signs and I don't think they thought anything would happen to them. I don't know if
they did the route or not (I suggested they probably not do it. They had no axe nor crampons.) The very
next day after they intended to do the route the Irish guy in another party (not the one I spoke to) fell and
died as he tried to save his companion.

It is all very sad and the whole thing (as somebody indicated elsewhere on chockstone) has been a case
of last year repeating itself. Have a read of the article in this year's NZAC alpine journal on last year's
tragedy on the Ramp/Aspiring. With the two Ramp deaths again this year it is all very sad and very
sobering.

My condolences to Marc's friends and family, and to those of Niklas. Its a long way from a joke when
such a beautiful pastime claims lives.

Alan