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Pete Whittaker, 1st ascent Baron Greenback E9/10 7

dalai

25-Oct-2013
11:47:28 PM

Pete Whittaker, 1st ascent Baron Greenback, E9/10 7a, Wimberry, UK. from Wild Country on Vimeo.

Olbert

26-Oct-2013
7:43:39 PM

Can somebody explain to me why ridiculously dodgy caving bolts 6mm wide by 10mm deep are ok but replacing them with real bolts would be sacrilegious?

Karl Bromelow

26-Oct-2013
8:20:34 PM

I will if someone promises to replace all those carrots with sensible hangers ; )

The bolts were placed by aid climbers back in the mists of time. A few ancient bolts exist on various gritstone crags such as Caley, Burbage, Wimberry. The bolts were placed by climbers who probably couldn't imagine such routes going free. Possibly before the ethic of no bolts on gritstone or UK mountain crags became entirely "set in stone". The ethic is welcomed and enjoyed by most informed and respectful British climbers. It adds spice to what are precious edges in a country with a large climbing community. It's not at all complex or irrational, it makes simple sense. Hope that helps.

Big G

26-Oct-2013
8:27:18 PM

On 26/10/2013 Olbert wrote:
>Can somebody explain to me ......
No, no the can't.

Karl Bromelow

26-Oct-2013
9:25:08 PM

The bolts are more likely to be chopped than replaced. If, someday, some extraordinary talent shows up who can lead this route without clipping the old aid bolts then they'll likely be chopped. That's what happened to the old bolt on Fred Zinnerman at Caley when Ben Bransby lead it without the bolt. To replace the old aid bolts with new sport bolts would create an even more confusing anomaly to the ethic than the presence of the old aid bolts. It really isn't that hard to understand if you know the scene, honestly.

f_abe

26-Oct-2013
10:32:45 PM

This might sound like I'm taking the piss, but I'm not, serious question...if someone climbs a route without clipping a bolt, can they chop it? Can we see a whole free climbing revolution where aid elimination is the key (even the most ardent sport climber can't argue that bolts are nought but glorified aid, cos without em the climb wouldn't exist). So mr grade 33 climber comes and removes all 'aid' on a bunch of 28's and less and leaves nothing for us 'bumblies'. Fair? I toprope the f--- out of weaveworld, place a dodgy thread or two, and chop the bolts. Fair? Why not? I'm doing it in better 'style', much like the aid eliminations of the past. As physical difficulty seems to compress at the top end, why not a bold revolution?
But as someone who is currently developing a new low to mid grade sport cliff in the vic ranges I hope it never happens...but what right do I have if someone comes and climbs the routes au naturale and decides to chop my bolts?

Doug

26-Oct-2013
11:41:03 PM

On 26/10/2013 f_abe wrote:
>So mr grade 33 climber comes and removes all 'aid' on a bunch of 28's and less and leaves nothing for us 'bumblies'. Fair?

No, not "fair". Exclusionist. Ms or Mr Grade 33 can choose not to clip the bolts if s/he so chooses. Unless the local community thinks that removing the bolts will be of general benefit they should stay.

>I toprope the f--- out of weaveworld, place a dodgy thread or two, and chop the bolts. Fair? Why not? I'm doing it in better 'style', much like the aid eliminations of the past. As physical difficulty seems to compress at the top end, why not a bold revolution?

Why not just go the whole hog and "chop" the access track and remove the rap anchors as well? Let the real gnarly folks have ALL the fun ...

dalai

27-Oct-2013
12:25:05 AM

On 26/10/2013 f_abe wrote:
>This might sound like I'm taking the piss, but I'm not, serious question...if
>someone climbs a route without clipping a bolt, can they chop it?

The reason bolt sare chopped is that on Gritstone the ethics is no bolts. Therefore the few remaining aid bolts placed before the clear delineation of the no bolts ethics means if deemed unnecessary they can be removed.

pmonks

27-Oct-2013
4:24:38 AM

Are there any routes on grit that can't be top roped practically?

It certainly doesn't look like it from that I've seen (disclaimer: seen lots of movies, never been there in person), in which case the "no bolt" ethic makes perfect sense to me. If a bumbly wants to have a lash on something bold without risk of injury, they should jump on it on a top rope.

I don't quite understand why top roping is the red headed stepchild of climbing, particularly on cliffs less than 25m high that aren't too steep (or have clear swing zones), and have reasonable top access.

Karl Bromelow

27-Oct-2013
6:11:44 AM

On 27/10/2013 pmonks wrote:
>Are there any routes on grit that can't be top roped practically?

There are a few. Girdle traverses and a couple of long(ish) roof cracks come to mind. But, essentially you are right. And much top roping does go on. The greater mass of less talented climbers certainly don't seem to be ashamed of slinging a top rope on routes they aren't up to leading. The bigger worry than ethical concerns here would be possible damage e.g. loss of crucial pebbles on the thinner gritstone test pieces caused by too much less delicate traffic. The funkiness of hard gritstone moves, however, tends to protect the top end routes from too many suitors. Even on top rope. I've seen much more of this kind of damage to boulder problems since increase in use of bouldering mats and the decline of the beer towel.

Olbert

27-Oct-2013
8:29:57 AM

On 26/10/2013 Karl Bromelow wrote:
>I will if someone promises to replace all those carrots with sensible hangers
>; )
>
>The bolts were placed by aid climbers back in the mists of time. A few
>ancient bolts exist on various gritstone crags such as Caley, Burbage,
>Wimberry. The bolts were placed by climbers who probably couldn't imagine
>such routes going free. Possibly before the ethic of no bolts on gritstone
>or UK mountain crags became entirely "set in stone". The ethic is welcomed
>and enjoyed by most informed and respectful British climbers. It adds spice
>to what are precious edges in a country with a large climbing community.
>It's not at all complex or irrational, it makes simple sense. Hope that
>helps.

I think I can live with (being 10000km away :p) the whole bold head point thing but it seems to me that this route only has three points of pro - the three dodgy bolts (not including that sling down low with 17 biners on it). This route seems more about peoples willingness to gamble with their own lives and climbing careers by falling on them than their skill in placing pro and climbing.

It also seems to me that the next step for this route is to be free soloed. Remove the bolts - then at least there is no uncertainty if you fall. I can't decide if this is rational or not.

All that said, just because somebody else enjoys climbing a different style to me doesn't mean they are wrong (just silly)! It would be a very boring climbing scene if everyone climbed what I like to climb.

cruze

27-Oct-2013
1:07:00 PM

The actual climbing on that route looks awesome - hard physically and technically.

The rest (down mittens, bamboo cane aid stick clipping, the initial bolting of an aid route up that prow, the reliance on those aid bolts as pro, etc, etc) is just weird.

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