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1 x belay for Indoor / outdoor - (non vcc thread) 22-Feb-2010 At 11:58:46 AM Paul

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On 22/02/2010 dmnz wrote:
>On 21/02/2010 egosan wrote:
>>dmnz is correct in saying that leading is nothing arcane. I do think
>he
>>is painting with too
>>broad a brush when it comes "clubs." Though I have heard horror stories
>>about log books
>>and sign offs from multiple existing leaders to be come accredited as
>>a leader, this has not
>>been my experience.
>>
>>I have been involved with the VCC for a year now. The scenario usually
>>plays out
>>something like this: "So I heard you want to lead." "Cool." "Let's
>>go find an easy route."
>>
>>All of the reasons I have seen that stop people from becoming leaders
>>are self imposed.
>>Whether it be lack of self-assurance or lack of ambition, it is still
>>not the club preventing
>>anyone form leading.
>>
>
>I dont know if I said the club stops you from leading but they make it
>out to be something all big and mighty that its not. all it is is learning
>to be responsible for yourself.
>
Wrong.

Unless you are lead soloing it is more than just being responcible for your self, what about your belayer / second? It is probable more about being responsible for others if anything, your second needs to be able to trust your belaying, your anchors and if they are of lesser experience that you can get them out of trouble.

I have been involved in training with uni outdoors clubs, where I have taught a number of people climbing skills ranging from basic setups and belaying through to leading. Some people who have asked to learn to lead have become anoyed when I say no, you are not ready yet. Hence some of the bad stigma about clubs. However if you can setup a nearly complete top rope climb in just over an hour chances are you propably aren't quite ready yet. Some people seem to have difficulty accepting this.

There was one person on a trip once who chose to debate the point the first 12 times that I asked them to put their helmet on before belaying at a the base of a cliff with a number of loose rocks. They then seemed confused when I said no when they asked me to teach them to lead.

I know that some people in clubs can be a bit overprotective however it can take just one major accident to end the clubs funding or spoil the reputation of the organisation.

>people should go read some of the classic mountaineering texts and see
>how some of these guys got to do their first leads.
>

Although those who die through trial and error never seem to write classic mountaineering texts. Those who write the books about epics are often the lucky ones.

>if the club thing works for you great, do it. nothing against it. but
>there are other ways to learn rather than ONLY doing learn to lead courses.
> whatever works for you and floats your boat
>>
>>

There is no substitute for being taught by someone who has experience, be it club, course or a climbing partner (in my opinion).