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TR: Alive in a Bitter Sea (Katoomba Cliifs) 9-Dec-2016 At 1:19:34 PM WarwickB

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Hi Simon,

Chill out! Seems like you have some strong views about how climbs ought to be done. Fine. However denigrating climbs done 30 years ago and the person who did the first ascent is not a particularly good look.

Its a bit of an overkill to suggest Alive in a Bitter Sea is a 'mess' of a route, and putting it up 'a crime' done for selfish and egotistical reasons (as I see it all climbing has an element of egoism and selfishness about it, including putting up well bolted routes on the Totem Pole).

My view is that Alive in a Bitter Sea and the other routes on Echo Wall are excellent routes as they are, and that they were done in an acceptable style. They offer a high quality experience to those who value that type of experience. Clearly there are those that do, even if only a few.

Those that don't will go sport climbing or bouldering or soloing or alpine waterfall climbing, or high altitude mountaineering or any of the other forms of climbing that appeal to them. There is plenty of room in the climbing world for wide variety. It makes it more interesting as well.

Any alterations to the climbs on Echo Point wall on the spurious grounds they are purportedly a 'mess', receive infrequent ascents, or are on 'real estate' that was 'hijacked', is not something I generally agree with. If people who have led the routes believe strongly enough that alterations ought to be made, based on legitimate concerns, I'm more than happy to discuss it with them.

Alive in a Bitter Sea doesn't appeal to you. Not a problem. Find something else to climb that does, as I'm sure you will. There are plenty around.

Regards

Warwick