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TR: Alive in a Bitter Sea (Katoomba Cliifs) 6-Dec-2016 At 2:40:51 PM PThomson

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For me, a large part of the appeal IS the headpoint aspect (I always seem to climb better when there is some consequence, and at some subliminal level I never take pure sporty sport climbing serious enough to give it "everything I've got" on the redpoint burn), but I agree that it appeals to such a tiny audience, that it can be hard to justify.

If someone did seek permission to, and ultimately did partially retro it, I like to hope that it might still be a carrot-bolted route (for limiting visibility by the hordes of tourists, if nothing else) and my glue-in carrots mean the job is at least partially done already. OR they'll hate carrots as much as Neil does (we've had many a good debate on the topic in the past), and rip all my carrots out as well =P

As to the flake: it IS super-crucial, though its removal wouldn't necessarily make the sequence impossible... You'd need to pin the flake to keep it attached (it's not being held on by much, sticks out from the with a good 1cm+ gap, and physically moves when you yard on it). A bolt by that flake would mitigate the 2 sections on that pitch which make it R/X (not a true X, but entering into that territory). The other being the 5m section below it. Most of this climb would be a "soft-R" (still bold, but not REALLY dangerous) with an extra bolt or 2 strategically placed on each pitch.

Tangent: Daedalus is exciting, but not as dangerous as I'd been led to expect it to be. Bloody sandbagged at the grade though (and I could do the boulder-problem start with help of my height!)

- Paul T