On 10/08/2017 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>I think that your concept of aid climbing has it locked in to the stereotypical
>ancient concept of that genre of climbing.
Not entirely...Ive always secretly been excited about skyhooks...their abiltity to hold a 2mm edge and where that could take you.
>Aid climbing has moved on and become 'clean aid' (hammerless) climbing
>(for the most part)...
Yes..though steve monks contents that ozzymandias is a grade or two easier these days becuse it has been scarred out after the first free ascent. Pesronaly I think hes just trying it on becue it is believable....but it is belivable...Ive done routes at frog that were only climbable becuse of the pin scars and I have heard of people aiding a route a bunch of times until the scars were big enough to make it climbable for them.
>Indeed, I would suggest that if you tried putting up an M7 (or harder)
>grade aid climb cleanly, that you would soon be converted as to what actually
>constitutes this genre of the climbing game we play.
I can imagine me doing this. But I think if some one came along and actualy free climbed something I'd aided acoss I would be happy for them to tke ownership.
>M6 and above however, is still for me a significant 'hook' that has
>plenty of adrenaline (fear factor?) potential involved, and it's the mental
>engagement with it by trying to do it cleanly that provides this.
And the routefinding...on multipitch aid climbing often the finding of a line carries through intot he free ascent.
>Stealing from the future would certainly be the case if something is chipped,
>and I agree that the game is diminished when bought down to a lower standard
>by whatever means; however while ever there are the likes of Alex Honnold
>stepping up to the mark to freesolo an El Capitan major route that historically
>involved pin scars etc, ... and without renaming the route in the process(!),
>then I think your premise is eroded somewhat! ☺
Fair enough, I just thought it was a better example that somone retrobolting an existing free route or aid climbing a route after it had been freed and trying to claim that as some sort of a thing. doing a route in lesser style is never going to fly but a new bottom line for good style might...Perhaps a better less futuristic example Ive just thought of...placing the gear on lead on the actual ascent....sounds obvious but but if that was the bottom line for a valid ascent it would totally rewrite the history of australian climbing (1985-2010).
>>what's the first name you think of when you hear "procul harem", "yesterday",
>or "india" Honestly without doing some research to unearth any original names involved,
>I only know them by those titles, so you will have to forgive me my ignorant
>and parochial NSW upbringing!
I'll let Imaseriousyounglizard fill you in on the details but they were signficant free climbing moments in australian histrory first 26,27&28 or thereabouts. I think Baxter was involved in the aiding of some of them but as free ascents they were noteworthy.
>>Even with aid the goal seems to be eliminating aid. the old guidebooks
>>were full of X eliminated 2 points of aid Y reduces aid to just 3 points...the
>end point of that being that Z managed climb with no points of aid.
You never hear reported that someone had managed to do an ascent using more aid than anyone else previously...the end goal of climbing is zero aid.
>Agreed, though this brings us back to the valid point that rossco stated
>clearly and which BA and myself (and presumably other oldies), are also
>voicing; and that is that here in Australia we don't re-name routes if
>they receive a better style of ascent, as we have enshrined a routes history
>in guidebooks since day one!
I honestly was not aware of this was even a concept until 2 days ago....anything Ive done that sits with this is good luck or good will... not abidance of lore. Whistling Kite was and excellent example of rosco's...I think when I was young and impressionable these were signficant ascents (lord of th erings is in the same boat in my book) and I now that I think about it other examples in the uk back this up. Had no idea that here in australia we do things differently.