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Chockstone Forum - Crag & Route Beta

Crag & Route Beta

Area	Location	Sub Location	Crag	Links
VIC Buffalo	The Horn Environs	(General)	The Horn	[ Horn Guide ]

Topic Date User

Bolting at The Horn, Mount Buffalo 28-Feb-2013 At 10:53:19 AM crazyjohn

Message

On 28/02/2013 nmonteith wrote:
>Isn't Simey a guide and didn't he add several bolts to easy routes at Arapiles
>recently (including Watchtower Crack?). They were certainly put on routes
>well within his limits, and by his own words were put in for others with
>lesser ability.

Simey copped it for watchtower and dribble (for right or wrong) but in neither case (out of nearly 30! pages of replies) was it suggested that he bolted these routes to facilitate guiding. In the Buffalo case, Andrew has almost(but not quite) come right out and said these bolts make it easier for him to guide.

Comparing Simon's retro bolting with Andrew's is actually very useful because it gives people a good example of when installing anchors on an established climb is generally acceptable. It also should demonstrate to would-be retro-bolters (guides) that retro-bolting routes is VERY controversial. Unfortunately, I dont think Andrew Davis cares a tot; look at his "face against the mirror" crap.

The main point is that I do not think Simey added these bolts for guiding. I dont think Simey adds any bolts for guiding. He has long stated that grade is not the only consideration for placing bolts. I believe his actions are to keep Araps a good crag for all levels of climbers. Andrew Davis does not come across this way. He seems to think he has as much right to add bolts for guiding (or more) than recreational climbers have for not wanting bolts. This is my gripe. Because Simey is a guide, you might wonder if he is trying to make his job easier but really know one believes this. However, this Andrew character has come right out and stated he has as much right to retro-bolt routes for guiding as the FA team had to climb Pintle LHV. This is the big issue. Because he stated this(or words to this effect), it makes all the other many reasons he gave for bolting very suspect. And I will state the obvious again- If a guide is making money from retro-bolting trad routes by guiding clients up them, all of the other arguments they use (like the good ones Simey used) to justify the bolts become extremely questionable.