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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

 Page 1 of 2. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 27
Author
Sydney Rock Climbing Guide iPhone App

Butters81
11/12/2010
12:30:38 PM
Is it any good?
Should I part with $3.99 for it?
Who made it?

ajfclark
11/12/2010
1:06:12 PM
On 11/12/2010 Butters81 wrote:
>Is it any good?
>Should I part with $3.99 for it?

No idea to those two.

>Who made it?

Daniel Bongiorno I believe.

Hawkman
11/12/2010
1:53:27 PM
Havn't downloaded the ap but got a shock when I saw the sample routes page on the sample page! Baldbearings was the first route I put up in a manky quarry and I thought it had been forgotten about

kuu
11/12/2010
2:02:43 PM
On 11/12/2010 Butters81 wrote:
>Is it any good?

I like it but then I enjoy these digital thingys.

>Should I part with $3.99 for it?

Depends:

If you already have the hard copy guides that cover all these areas then POSSIBLY NOT.

If you don't own an iPhone or iPad then DEFINITELY NOT.

If you decide that purchasing all the equivalent guides in hard copy would cost more than $3.99 then PROBABLY YES.

>Who made it?

As Andrew mentioned, the author/seller is Daniel Bongiorno.

Butters81
11/12/2010
2:06:47 PM
I'd buy it if it contains all the areas on the sydneyclimbing.com website and on the ACA website.
The only hardcopy guido I have is Mikl's Rock Mag one.
I think that parting with $3.99 is more attractive than carrying around a stack of A4 paper, but as above, I'd only really be interested if it can replace the aforementioned websites.

rodw
11/12/2010
2:14:50 PM
I believe it has the current aca info, and with the pending merge of info from sydneyclimbing site it might be complete....no idea if it automatically updates though?

kuu
11/12/2010
2:42:08 PM
On 11/12/2010 rodw wrote:
>
>....no idea if it automatically updates though?

Good point!

Hard copy/print guides obviously can't do this but Online and eGuides have the potential to do so. In the case of digital versions it may depend in the long run on whether the author has the energy, or incentive, to keep maintaining the database of information. We have probably all seen examples where an author has run out of steam or been overtaken by other priorities (eh Peter M?)

So the collaborative approach, as demonstrated lately by ACA, may be the way to go. Spread the workload, reduce the risk of individual burnout, and increase the base of opinion, knowledge, and experience behind the information.

garbie
12/12/2010
9:50:51 AM
Downloaded it and I seemed to have got it for free.

Looked at a crag at random - SW Barranjoey. It uses the Sydney Rockclimbing site data but its jumbled - routes out of order, missing descriptions etc.

Its got potential though - i'd buy it if it was accurate. Topos would be nice, but I don't think they exist - anyone want to make a name for themselves?

Now we need a collaboration between Daniel Bongiorno and Simon Carter for a bluies app - how about it boys?

nmonteith
12/12/2010
10:21:17 AM
All the data is corrupted - the routes are totally out of order at every crag I've looked at. It just seems like an automated data strip from Peter Monks old online guide - with all the same mistakes and out of date info. I dont think any of the more recent ACA info has been included. Charging $4 for something which is obviously not been proof checked is a bit rich in my opinion.

Butters81
12/12/2010
11:32:36 AM
Thanks Garbie and Neil, you just saved me $4.

garbie
14/12/2010
9:12:44 AM
On 12/12/2010 garbie wrote:
>Downloaded it and I seemed to have got it for free.
>
Wasn't free after all, just took ages for the itunes invoice to come thru.

So Daniel, if you're reading this, how about fixing the database and sending out an update?

nmonteith
14/12/2010
9:24:24 AM
I've emailed him and he has promised an update sometime in the future.

pmonks
14/12/2010
9:38:02 AM
Just to set a couple of things straight:

  • Daniel used the SSS data (scraped from the site), as is his right provided he licensed the derivative work correctly (which he did).

  • The SSS data is (as Neil points out) 4 years out of date.

  • I recently provided a full dump of the SSS data to the ACA, and I believe they are currently working on merging it with the more accurate but incomplete data they already had for Sydney. Once that's complete ACA will become the "system of record" for climbing info for Sydney. All of the data will be CC-SA licensed.

  • Daniel is already investigating using the ACA data instead of SSS, which is beneficial for everyone (not least because it opens up the app to being the mobile version of ACA, which covers considerably more than just Sydney).

  • From my interactions with him, Daniel is very open to any and all feedback on the app. I have no idea if he's on Chockstone or not, so would suggest sending it to him via email (his address is in the app).



pmonks
14/12/2010
9:48:03 AM
On 12/12/2010 Nmonteith wrote:
>All the data is corrupted - the routes are totally out of order at every
>crag I've looked at. It just seems like an automated data strip from Peter
>Monks old online guide - with all the same mistakes and out of date info.
>I dont think any of the more recent ACA info has been included. Charging
>$4 for something which is obviously not been proof checked is a bit rich
>in my opinion.

Jeez you're a fückwit Neil. If you had any idea what the state of Sydney climbing information was like in 1997 when I started checking Sydney guides & crags you'd keep your thoughtless comments to yourself. Just be thankful there even is a reasonably comprehensive & accurate single source of information for climbing in Sydney now - there are certainly plenty of locals who've tried very hard over the last 2 decades to keep that information to themselves.

nmonteith
14/12/2010
10:09:59 AM
On 14/12/2010 pmonks wrote:>
>Jeez you're a fückwit Neil. If you had any idea what the state of Sydney
>climbing information was like in 1997 when I started checking Sydney guides
>& crags you'd keep your thoughtless comments to yourself. Just be thankful
>there even is a reasonably comprehensive & accurate single source of information
>for climbing in Sydney now - there are certainly plenty of locals who've
>tried very hard over the last 2 decades to keep that information to themselves.

Thanks for the compliments Peter! For the record your guide is a fantastic resource - obviously an incredible amount of work and one that I and others use regulary. But as you well know much of it is out of date - and some of the corrections are contained within easy reach on climb.org.au site. I wasn't belittling your impressive efforts - I was pissed off that this guy has published a guide to sydney without actually checking any of the content - and charges money for it! I think he released it very prematurely and should have spent a bit of time actually making sure it was a useful resource. For example most of the crags around my house in the Sutherland shire have been rebolted in the last few years as well as heaps of new routes. E.g. The Lost World at bangor is not rusty bolts and moss - its now all shiny and renewed and has been for at least a year. Same goes for Blue Bell, Cathedral, Earlwood and many other popular city crags. I would expect a new guide to contain the new info - a fancy iPhone ap is nice and all but it needs to contain relevant info. Everyone appreciates your original online guide - it just needs updating!

Sincerely, The f---wit

nmonteith
14/12/2010
10:20:29 AM
On 14/12/2010 pmonks wrote:
>
  • I recently provided a full dump of the SSS data to the ACA, and I
    >believe they are currently working on merging it with the more accurate
    >but incomplete data they already had for Sydney.
    > Once that's complete ACA will become the "system of record" for climbing
    >info for Sydney. All of the data will be CC-SA licensed.


  • Who in the ACA is doing the merging I wonder? I think it's the sort of thing that needs to be done manually rather than automatically - and by someone who actually knows the areas in question so they can correct mistakes on the fly. I will happily do the Sutherland Shire area if allowed.

    ambyeok
    14/12/2010
    10:38:32 AM
    I develop Android apps in my limited spare time. I'm considering opportunities around developing an Android based guide. PM me if you have something we should talk about.

    pmonks
    14/12/2010
    10:39:47 AM
    Apology accepted.

    Back to the topic, recall that what Daniel's charging for is the app that he developed, not the data the app presents. The app itself does have some niggles (like not preserving crag / climb order properly), but I reckon the biggest issue is the choice in data source. I'd like to see Daniel and the ACA to work together to figure out how to make the app use the ACA data (particularly since ACA will soon have merged in the SSS data anyway), but I'm sure that will take a little time.

    Having tried out a couple of other climbing apps, what I can say is that this one is already competitive with them, and when/if the data source flips over to ACA it'll be better than anything else out there. Daniel seems pretty passionate, so rather than sh1tting all over the app in here I'd rather see feedback sent to him directly so that the app itself improves and makes the whole "is it worth it" discussion moot.

    pmonks
    14/12/2010
    10:46:15 AM
    On 14/12/2010 nmonteith wrote:
    >Who in the ACA is doing the merging I wonder?

    My contact there is Tom Kjaer-Olsen - I've PM'ed you his email address.

    >I think it's the sort of
    >thing that needs to be done manually rather than automatically - and by
    >someone who actually knows the areas in question so they can correct mistakes
    >on the fly.

    Agreed, although doesn't the ACA site have editing capabilities already? Wouldn't it make more sense to just bulk load all the SSS data then sort it out using the existing tools??

    nmonteith
    14/12/2010
    10:54:24 AM
    I've sent him a long email Peter! I'm a bit of a stickler for accurate info so that's really all i care about.

     Page 1 of 2. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 27
    There are 27 messages in this topic.

     

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