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OT: Rebelious reopening of locked topic 28-Aug-2010 At 9:00:28 AM TonyB

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On 28/08/2010 dave h. wrote:
>glad to hear you've had a good 5 years, I hope the next 50 get better :)
Thank you. 50 years would put me at 112 ... as long as it lasts another 30 and as long as I can keep climbing for the next 20 I'll be happy.

>Have to take issue with you about Jesus not dying - first off, the guys
>who stabbed him were Roman soldiers. Pretty sure everyone agrees Roman
>Legionnaires knew how to stab a guy - and let's face it, if you're a Roman
>footsoldier tasked with executing people, and you don't do your job, you're
>probably going to get in trouble for it. And then let's not forget that
>he's been flogged (Matt 27:26) and beaten (Matt 27:30) by the Romans several
>times prior to this. Bearing in mind what we know about Roman floggings
>(scourges with multiple tails and metal fragments), Jesus is already hurting
>quite a bit by the time he's on the cross.

I assume you are saying he was so stuffed he must have died ? Have you read the book (not the movie) The Killing Fields ? In the book, the doctor was starving and near death when he was crucified. Three days on the cross with a fire burning beneath him ... and he survived !

>Then there's the reference in
>John's gospel to blood and water flowing out of Jesus' body once he's stabbed,
>which is at least suggestive of pericardial effusion. Overall I have little
>difficulty in believing that Jesus was dead as a doornail when He was taken
>off the cross.

Why did the soldiers stab him ? One reason ... to see if he was faking. Wouldn't you be faking if you were up there ? He bled, indicating he was faking. "There flowed forth blood ..." He was alive when they cut him down.

>On the OT. I think you're overstating what Genesis 6 says about the Nephilim.

It very much depends on which version of the bible you read. Successive versions, starting in about 400AD modified the text to make it fit with the church's needs. eg 2nd : "Though shalt not make to thine self any graven image, nor of the likeness of anything ..." ... which includes crosses, statues of women and babies, etc etc

>Nowhere does it say they're 450 feet tall (although Noah's ark is mentioned
>as being 450 feet long,

Correct the bible doesn't mention 450ft tall but other ancient documents do. The bible does take about lots of 1000 year old men though. Perhaps this is more credible than being 450ft tall ?

Read more closely and with earlier versions of the bible. Look for the progeny of the Nephalim after the flood.

" ... We are told that these Nephilim became giants because they were the product of sexual relations between humans and what are called the sons of God, thus accounting for their great size. With the blood line of the Nephilim wiped out in the flood, one wonders why suddenly the giants reappear in the Bible. The Nephilim reappear again in the book of Numbers, and once again this disparate tradition is unique to this book. (It would appear that the books of Samuel are following the Numbers tradition in telling the tale of Goliath, the giant.) ... "
http://www.awitness.org/contrabib/torah/giant.html