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THE AUSTRALIAN RE, RETRO-BOLTING OPEN FORUM 13-Apr-2004 At 9:14:19 PM Estey

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On 13/04/2004 Damien wrote:

>You can't chop and change and take this and that, take the
>best of the current technologies/ethics and wrap yourself in the cloak
>of traditional righteousness. It's too late for that, the crag is already
>covered in chalk and bolts.

Damien

Slow down and check your tie-in dude. Why can't different styles of climbing and the ethics and philosophies behind them coexist? I think that in Oz we have a good mixture of trad, sport, trad-sport etc. I enjoy all of these styles. I'm not sure how this makes me a hypocrite. In many places you can find all of these styles at the same crag. The only thing that threatens this coexistence is inappropriate retrobolting.

So far the only contribution you have made towards the "retrobolt debate" is that repeat ascentionists have the right to add bolts to a route if they feel it is unsafe. Unfortunately its not that black and white. Who decides whether a climb is a deathroute? When is a climb merely bold or do bold routes need bolts added too? Do you think routes such as Brolga and Missing Link need bolts? Most climbers believe these routes should remain in their naturally protected state (as previously discussed in other threads on this forum). However if these routes were located at Thompson's Point they would be fully ring bolted and and most climbers wouldn't give a flying fornification. Your kidding yourself if you believe that the history and ethics of a particular area don't have some influence on whether a climb should be retrobolted.

By the way I've never argued that retrobolting should never take place. In particular if somebody does a poor job putting up a sports route I'm all for a reshuffle and a few extra rings. But adding bolts to existing routes in more traditional areas requires consultation and consensus among long term locals (including the first ascentionist if possible). If I'm not mistaken this is consistent with both Safer Cliffs Victoria and the NSW Rebolting Fund's philosophy on rebolting.

And Damien you really remind me of someone ... you don't have a little brother called Seth who climbs at Queen's Park do you?