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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

 Page 1 of 2. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 28
Author
bouldering for short-arses

nat
24/07/2009
11:50:24 PM
This may seem like a silly question to some... But does climbing boulder problems (e.g. 1-3metre boulders -real rock... or plastic) more calculated/ statically/ or "slower" make you gain more 'bulk', or does it make you gain more endurance?
I have a tendancy to climb "slow" but then when needed, dyno/ dead point (which is A LOT, as i am a short-ass of 5 foot 4 inches).
Will I gain more "bulk", (considering the height and dyno factor) rather than endurance?

Any thoughts welcome.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
24/07/2009
11:59:57 PM
Go tradding instead?.



~> You could end up well ripped!

Hehx3?

contactgav
25/07/2009
9:01:20 AM
here are a few questions,
1. do you climb slow because you don't read the moves a head of you quickly,
2. do you climb slow because you don't look at the problem in detail before you start.
given the height of 3m you should be able to get a good idea from the ground.

the speed of you climb will not make you gain more muscle mass.
that comes down to a range of other more influentia factors.
mainly; genetics and the type of training you are doing to supplement your climbing.

what i have seen, shorties usually have good footwork compared to our less vertically challenged bretheren. tall folk have rarely been hindered by lack of reach so they have the comfort of using big foot halls compared to pieces of trout.


so to answer your question, No. the way you climb will not make you gain more bulk.
hope that helps.but it will increase your contact strength as your are holding on to holds longer

nat
25/07/2009
11:42:00 AM
Will I gain more "bulk", (considering the height and dyno factor) rather than endurance?

yeah by bulk i mean muscle mass

Because I thought it would be like weights: when you lift a heavy weight slowly you can only do a certain amount of repetitions, and this will give you bulkier muscles, whereas, when you lift a lighter weight, you can do higher repetitions and this gives you endurance and more lean muscles.

Just wondering if this applies to bouldering?

I have also noticed that since i have been running for 30 mins 5 times a week has improved my bouldering as i have dropped a few kilo's and has improved my endurance and breathing.

howzithanging?
25/07/2009
12:07:11 PM
On 25/07/2009 oldfella wrote:

>so to answer your question, No. the way you climb will not make you gain
>more bulk.
>
i totally dissagrere

fast powerefull moves while climbing will work your muscles differently therefore change the way they recover (grow).
this is cleary evident when you compare a boulders body type to that of a trad climber.
so if you are climbing slowly to simulate climbing big walls, i think this will have a direct impact on how much you bulk up while training

IdratherbeclimbingM9
25/07/2009
12:13:05 PM
On 25/07/2009 howzithanging? wrote:
>so if you are climbing slowly to simulate climbing big walls, i think
>this will have a direct impact on how much you bulk up while training

Nah!
Bulking up for a big wall mostly involves gear and haulbags and-

Heh. heh, heh.

Rat Man
25/07/2009
2:37:38 PM
Here's my understanding of the subject....

The way you train will effect the way your body looks, but to a less extent than what your genetics dictate.
Training hard, dynamic, at-your-limit bouldering will build up your fast-twitch fibres (the ones responsible for power)
Training at a low intensity/high duration will build up your slow-twitch fibres. (endurance)

The fast-twitch fibres are bigger than slow twitch, so you can bulk up a bit, but......
You can't change the ratio of fast/slow twitch, this is detemined by genetics - that's why successful sprinters are GENERALLY black as they have a bias towards fast twitch. (however, not loads of rock-star black boulderers as there are lots of elements to being a successful climber- but it would be a handy start.)

Other factors will influence how you look as well, such as a low percentage body fat will make you look ripped even though your muscle mass hasn't changed. You'll have to commit to a pretty serious training/diet schedule (in the climbing gym at least 3 times a week) to make a significant impact on your body shape.

Just find a training system that you enjoy doing (so you keep doing it) and remember that the best result is that you can climb better outdoors.
Christian

Rat Man
25/07/2009
2:43:14 PM
P.S. Lynn Hill is 5'2", is one of the greatest female climbers ever and looks tiny in person. So train your guts out and dont worry about it. Plus climbing chicks look great!
Bam Bam
25/07/2009
3:19:58 PM
>You can't change the ratio of fast/slow twitch,>

Although you can't permanently change ST fibres to FT fibres, you can actually 'trick' (train) the slower FT fibres (type IIa) to behave like fast FT fibres (type IIb). Complex Training (apparently invented by ruski athletics coaches during the cold war) involves a combination of eccentric/concentric movement, closely (within a minute of stopping) followed by plyometric training. Eg, 3-6 reps of weighted pull-ups, say 85% max. then some plyometric dynos on the campus board. First part of recruits the typ IIa Fibres then plyometrics 'trick' them by utilising them in a faster fast twitch manner - this is serious training thus needs serious rest or risk of injury is very high.

Nat; Regarding original question - complex training will not gain muscle bulk, but will get you strong. That said, if you asking whether bouldering in a static fashion will gain bulk or not, you should probably avoid all forms of serious climbing specific training until you read some training material, already provided in links from other people.

if you really want to bulk up just remember this formula.

4 sets of 10 reps each @ 75% max (what you can lift once only) - 10th rep should be extremely hard. aim to fatigue muscles. Rough idea of % is 20 reps = 50%, work it out from there.

to get strong, aim at doing 4 sets of 6-8 at 82% of max.

Rat Man
27/07/2009
4:55:35 PM
I knew someone would have a better answer than me,
Thanks Josh

Plus - I agree with Josh, do some reading regarding training and work out what you want your training goals to be. If you want to get better without getting stronger, focus on technique, take some lessons and watch how really good climbers move.

Christian
One Day Hero
27/07/2009
5:18:53 PM
On 25/07/2009 Rat Man wrote:
>You can't change the ratio of fast/slow twitch, this is detemined by genetics
>- that's why successful sprinters are GENERALLY black as they have a bias
>towards fast twitch. (however, not loads of rock-star black boulderers
>as there are lots of elements to being a successful climber- but it would
>be a handy start.)

I reckon this is all to do with money and opportunity. Most of the guys in sprint running finals are african or african american. Most of the guys in distance running finals are african. How many africans in the Tour de France?

I doubt it's "lots of elements" keeping climbing white. Probably would be more ethnically diverse if it didn't have big startup cost. Also, many sports offer the opportunity to turn pro, get rich, eat better, own a flash car, hang out with heaps of hot chicks, and leave the shanty town for a life in the city. Climbing offers the opportunity to turn pro, be poor, eat worse, own a shitbox, hang out with hairy smelly bums, and leave the city for a life in some shanty town.

contactgav
27/07/2009
5:58:59 PM
by the way, that picture makes me feel i'll.

they have clinics for people like that.

real trad climbers have beards, drink beer and eat roast dinners.
not slices of tomato and sips of water.

shay
27/07/2009
7:01:01 PM
I spent seven months on a bouldering trip in North America and there are a few strong african-americans climbers over there. As we all know, climbing is not as lucrative as other sports, you get into it because you love it and not to make money.

Back to the original topic.....

Nat, it doesn't matter how short you are, you can be as strong or stronger than the next climber. It all comes down to training and attitude. Don't make a lack of height as an excuse. I hate hearing people whine that they are too short/tall/fat/skinny to get up a problem. Get strong and get on with it. I'm female, 5 foot and boulder V8 outside (read: i've done a few not just one!).
Above all else, have fun and enjoy what you do :)
tastybigmac
27/07/2009
8:04:03 PM
you're way cool

Dutch
27/07/2009
8:33:53 PM
"There are no reach problems, only power problems!" Lynn Hill i think.
Wendy
28/07/2009
12:07:47 PM
On 27/07/2009 One Day Hero wrote:

>
>I reckon this is all to do with money and opportunity. Most of the guys
>in sprint running finals are african or african american. Most of the guys
>in distance running finals are african. How many africans in the Tour de
>France?

There might not be a bunch of africans in the tour, but there are a hell of a lot of guys from low socioeconomic groups, which suggests cycling is hardly a money and opportunity sport. Lance Armstrong is the son of a poor 17 yo single mum. Miguel Indurain and Bernard Hinault, farm workers. Then there are a bunch of tradies and other ag industry workers. I'd say they got hold of any old bike at some stage and rode madly as a form of escapism and were lucky enough to get noticed somewhere. It's a bit like soccer in south america or boxing in the states.

Back on topic - 5'4'' isn't that short! Aside from which, you can always take up crack climbing which is way lower on reach problems. Shorter climbers tend to have to get stronger in order to climb hard, but you can only bulk up so much when you're just pulling your also rather small weight around. A weight belt or weight training might lead to unnecessary bulk, but I'd say the main disadvantage of climbing slowly is that it can be less efficient and there's a lot to be said for quick route reading and smooth, decisive movement. How the hell to you dyno slowly anyway?

IdratherbeclimbingM9
28/07/2009
12:13:44 PM
shay wrote
>Back to the original topic.....

Bulking up vs endurance?

On 28/07/2009 Wendy wrote:
>How the hell to you dyno slowly anyway?

OP says "but then when needed"

x 3

[Post edit: a 'dead-point' is technically a slow dyno?]
widewetandslippery
28/07/2009
12:25:23 PM
Are you afraid you may end up looking like an oompaloompa?




if so stop being so bloody vain

shay
28/07/2009
12:39:09 PM
Bouldering is power based and you will build up certain muscles, but this doesn't necessarily mean you'll end up looking like a body builder. If bouldering is your thing then you need to train power and power endurance. Without these, you can cling on to a wall all day and not get up anything.
One Day Hero
28/07/2009
4:06:35 PM
On 28/07/2009 Wendy wrote:
>There might not be a bunch of africans in the tour, but there are a hell
>of a lot of guys from low socioeconomic groups, which suggests cycling
>is hardly a money and opportunity sport. Lance Armstrong is the son of
>a poor 17 yo single mum. Miguel Indurain and Bernard Hinault, farm workers.
>Then there are a bunch of tradies and other ag industry workers. I'd say
>they got hold of any old bike at some stage and rode madly as a form of
>escapism and were lucky enough to get noticed somewhere. It's a bit like
>soccer in south america or boxing in the states.

I don't want to get into a tit for tat on poverty, but a farm worker in france being poor compared to a farm worker in ethiopia? Or anyone in ethiopia for that matter?

If you believe the press reports, Brad Wiggins was hired on for the tour based solely on powermeter results. I have no doubt that the african athletes who regularly smash all white comers in running events would put out phenominal powermeter results if given the opportunity.

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