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Chockstone Forum - General Discussion

General Climbing Discussion

 Page 1 of 7. Messages 1 to 20 | 21 to 40 | 41 to 60 | 61 to 80 | 81 to 100 | 101 to 120 | 121 to 128
Author
No More Overseas Travel? - Running out of oil?

oweng
26/10/2007
9:58:12 AM
I found this depressing article on-line. I read this guys book earlier this year, didnt realise he was a climber though!

There is nothing really about climbing itself in the article, but it does raise issues about upcoming shortages in oil (and the associated massive price rises that will come with it) and the sustainability of climbing. Worth a read if your into that sort of things.

http://www.davidstrahan.com/blog/?p=7#more-7

Its interesting to consider how sustainable the 2+ hour each way drives most of us do on the weekends to get to our favorite crags. If not environmentally, then at least economically. A trip to Araps from Melb is about 400km, say 56 litres for the round trip at 7 litres/100kn. Thats $67 at $1.20 a litre. So thats $135 if the price doubles, or $200 if it triples. I would think $200 would be the upper level that people would pay to make regular trips ($67 each with 3 people in the car). Any price rise above that would pretty much put an end to the regular long climbing commute. We have been protected from the recent oil price increases by the Australian Dollar increasing in value against the US dollar. Anyway, some food for thought.

IdratherbeclimbingM9
26/10/2007
10:05:06 AM
It is even further from Hobart?, and you did not factor in the ferry cost!

gordoste
26/10/2007
10:21:11 AM
I don't have that problem as I travel to the crag in the SCV helicopter.

oweng
26/10/2007
10:36:08 AM
On 26/10/2007 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:
>It is even further from Hobart?, and you did not factor in the ferry cost!

True, the ferrys probably pretty fuel efficient though! I have driven from Hobart to Moonarie (using the ferry). Now thats a big drive.

I saw on the news a few weeks ago a UK guy finished a trip around the world using only bicycles and a pedal boat. Took him about 10 years from memory!

rodw
26/10/2007
10:51:52 AM
I just came back from the UK and petrol there was around $2.40 a litre.....they still have a very healthy climbing scene.
dalai
26/10/2007
10:59:21 AM
On 26/10/2007 rodw wrote:
>I just came back from the UK and petrol there was around $2.40 a litre.....they
>still have a very healthy climbing scene.

And with high road tolls too!

But Europe is pretty small, so petrol costs are not really such a large factor

wallwombat
26/10/2007
11:00:19 AM
That Goran Kropp dude rode his bike from his home in Sweden to Everest and then climbed it solo without O2s.

Now he's dead. I hope he didn't get run over by a car.

rodw
26/10/2007
11:48:02 AM
Yeah but the roads are crappy and small or congested, takes you 2 hrs to get anyway in England.

nmonteith
26/10/2007
11:48:35 AM
On 26/10/2007 oweng wrote:
>Its interesting to consider how sustainable the 2+ hour each way drives
>most of us do on the weekends to get to our favorite crags. If not environmentally,
>then at least economically. A trip to Araps from Melb is about 400km, say
>56 litres for the round trip at 7 litres/100kn. Thats $67 at $1.20 a litre.
>So thats $135 if the price doubles, or $200 if it triples. I would think
>$200 would be the upper level that people would pay to make regular trips
>($67 each with 3 people in the car). Any price rise above that would pretty
>much put an end to the regular long climbing commute. We have been protected
>from the recent oil price increases by the Australian Dollar increasing
>in value against the US dollar. Anyway, some food for thought.

A 'normal' 4 cyclinder car (like a Forestor or Camry) does about 9.5l/100km - to get 7l you need to be
driving a tiny hatchback or a diesel sedan. 6 cylinder cars use more like 13l/100km. So your maths is
a bit out..

A 'normal' trip to Arapiles would be about $95 at current fuel prices.

We had a really big chat about this in the Gramps last weekend around the campfire. A few years ago
I wouldn't think twice about driving to the Grampians by myself, it only cost about $50 return. Now I
just can't justify the expense... I need to have at least one other person sharing the costs, and ideally
3 people all up. I recently bought a diesel 4WD because it uses less fuel - about 10l/100km for a 2.5
tonne monster truck. Im saving about $40 a weekend compared to the petrol model.

I foresee a future of club buses transporting us...

Things like the ski industry will also be hammered by these high prices.

BigMike
26/10/2007
11:50:22 AM

If you're worried about global warming and greenhouse gases ...

Global livestock production releases more greenhouse gases than all the trains, planes and automobiles in the world.

Offset your trip to the crags by not eating meat.

oweng
26/10/2007
12:04:41 PM
On 26/10/2007 nmonteith wrote:

>A 'normal' 4 cyclinder car (like a Forestor or Camry) does about 9.5l/100km
>- to get 7l you need to be
>driving a tiny hatchback or a diesel sedan. 6 cylinder cars use more like
>13l/100km. So your maths is
>a bit out..

True. My old Mazda Astina got high 7's, so I used that (and rounded down to 7 because I figured if fuel prices doubled or tripled in the next few years people would buy super efficient cars).

>I foresee a future of club buses transporting us...

Actualy that would work really well, particuly from Melbourne where you could probably find a guarenteed dozen people for every weekend.

>Things like the ski industry will also be hammered by these high prices.

And global warming!

GravityHound
26/10/2007
12:05:20 PM
On 26/10/2007 BigMike wrote:
>
>Offset your trip to the crags by not eating meat.

Getting off topic slightly - unfortunately the majority of the areas used for free range meat production are not suitable for vegetable production, so for those areas to produce food it has to be meat. Roos would prob be mroe sustainable than beef or lamb though. Doesnt apply for feedlotting though.

Back on topic - Will be travelling to Canada and then directly to China next year. Am buying 200 native trees and donating to local landcare group. 1) supporting a community group 2) when I drive/ride to work I can see the green little suckers doing their bit.

Just have to wait for more rain!

nmonteith
26/10/2007
12:11:19 PM
We will certainly be looking back on this period of time as the 'golden age' of transport I think. Time to
move to places like Sydney where the crags are closer...

Organ Pipe
26/10/2007
12:18:18 PM
When I go to Araps from Richmond, I borrow my mates company car. He works for BOC gasses so all their fleet are LPG only (no duel fuel).
I don't know whether they are modified to be super fuel efficient or anything, but I can get up and back for $40* worth of LPG.

The car is a station wagon, straight 6 cyl.

If I take my 4cyl 1.6ltr Lancer to Araps and Back, it costs more than that!

I was blown away by this.




*Cost it not actually what keeps me awake at night on this issue, the volume and c--ktail of gasses released gets me more upset. That and the fact that using oil for fuel is the dumest use for it. It is such a valuable synthesisable product.

BigMike
26/10/2007
12:20:45 PM
On 26/10/2007 GravityHound wrote:

>Getting off topic slightly - unfortunately the majority of the areas used
>for free range meat production are not suitable for vegetable production,
>so for those areas to produce food it has to be meat.

... and the vast amounts of associated greenhouse gases.

nmonteith
26/10/2007
12:32:45 PM
That's is impressive Organ Pipe! Whats the range? (ie how often do you have to fill up?)

anthonyk
26/10/2007
12:37:18 PM
On 26/10/2007 BigMike wrote:
>Global livestock production releases more greenhouse gases than all the
>trains, planes and automobiles in the world.
>
>Offset your trip to the crags by not eating meat.

i also happen to like animals so even if i wasn't eating them i would like them to be alive, if its not cows then kangaroos or buffalos or whatever fits the area best. so whether its "production" or them just living their lives its the same (similar) output of noxious gasses.

the other option is to not produce meat and kill anything that would otherwise live in the area. what about whales? they probably produce a fair amount of NH4 as well, maybe you should get rid of them too

zumojugo
26/10/2007
12:43:23 PM
My '74 merc converted to gas will do the trip to Arapiles and back for $50. I've never measured the greenhouse gas it produces but it does have sheepskin seats. I have therefore helped reduce the number of pesky greenhouse gas producing animals. Everyone must do their bit!

BigMike
26/10/2007
12:44:57 PM
On 26/10/2007 anthonyk wrote:
so whether its "production" or them just living their
>lives its the same (similar) output of noxious gasses.


There are an estimated 1.5 billion cows in the world. They are not merely "living their lives", they are being cultivated, at a vast environmental cost. They sure as hell don't belong in Australia.

zumojugo
26/10/2007
12:48:40 PM
On 26/10/2007 BigMike wrote:

>There are an estimated 1.5 billion cows in the world. They are not merely
>"living their lives", they are being cultivated, at a vast environmental
>cost. They sure as hell don't belong in Australia.

Neither do we.

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There are 128 messages in this topic.

 

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