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Advice on lowering from a bolt.. 10-Sep-2007 At 8:29:00 PM skink

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On 10/09/2007 Macciza wrote:
>Jeez - what is it with climbers today? 'Every' glue-in needs to be tested?
>All carrots suck? Man up!
>The loads you are putting on the stuff are miniscule! 2kN at most - a
>rurp or 2 RP would hold it!

I would never rap of a #2 RP, and I don't generally carry a rurp.

>I assume both people were siting on the bolt at some point before rapping
>- therefore they have
>effectively tested it to slightly over 2 body weights -with movement lets
>say 200 kg.

Nope, I understood one of them traversed in to the bolt in question, so the point is to treat it with some suspicion before committing two lives to it.

>So he lowers the climber the load is slightly less than 2 BW due to lowering
>rate -

Nonsense, if you lower some one at a steady rate the force is a constant BW. Anytime you lock them off and they bounce, the force spikes above BW by some amount (prolly small though).

>2 people simulrapping is exactly the same except more fun and you can
>talk on the way down you
>both get down quicker and can walk out earlier and if it goes wrong neither
>of you are left with a dead
>mate.

2 people rapping is at least double the load on the anchor, potentially more if you get some synchronised bouncing going a la SAS embassy invasions.

>The extra weight is really not an issue - the wire rated at ~10kN
>the bolts probably good for 20 -
>neither of them is very likely to get pushed off or out by a subterrainian
>gnome! Doubling up on biners
>is rarely necessary IMHO whatever the books say and if using a mallion
>don't use one that's too thin

Agree the gear strength is not an issue... it is the bolt connection to the rock that I would be most concerned with - bottomed out carrot bashed one too many times, that one glue-in put in with the dregs in the glue gun, hole not dusted clean, yadda yadda yadda
>
>Does anyone else on this forum actually know how to sit on a drawed carrot
>and still put a wire on the
>bolt take of the draw and bolt plate then rap? (Edi:t apart from Josh
>and Kyle)

I think you three guys are the only ones who actually climb

>
>And for godsakes people if it were a nice shiny ring surely you would
>just thread it and simulrap if you
>were both sitting on it?

Yep, after giving it a bit of a bounce :-)

>Every time a bolt gets fallen on it is essentially being load tested -
>if it is there when you get there and
>it does not fall out when you both sit on then I think you could pretty
>much say it is bomber!

Yep, this is why the top anchors and belay bolts are doubled up - they don't get fallen on so haven't passed, shall we call it, the Macca test

>
>Oh and as for the bad bolt photos referred to, half of them look like
>they would be fine to rap off - I'll
>send you some shots of some 'real' bad bolts sometime.

Cool, people can print the photos and use them to decide if a random bolt they come across is good to rap off. Would save yards of time instead of all this backing it up, one at a time, slow and steady waste of space that climbers have been using up until now.

>
>God I can't believe how much crap has been said already to end up with
>this reaction from me and I'm
>sorry if I have offended anyone . . .

Not offended, just amused. I feel kinda sorry for the guy who asked the question tho...