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Topic Date User

Renaming/rebolting aid route/attracting a girl! 3-May-2007 At 12:56:10 PM Skip-Skip

Message

On 3/05/2007 M9iswhereitsat wrote:

>Fairly insensitive and contentious (last) post you made there skip-skip,
>which I assume was your intention.

Yes, maybe I was a little too harsh but consider it a consciousness raising exercise
>
but I am curious about your logic
>so will continue to participate.
>Yes, let's debate it
>On 2/05/2007 skip-skip wrote:
>> Look, with regard to new areas a decision should be made whether it
>is to be a bolted, non-bolted or mixed area.
>Why should things be ‘black and white’ regarding making bolting decisions
>on new areas? It seems to me we don’t live in an ideal world and that even
>if this were the case, there are always mavericks out there who will upset
>the status quo.
Why not? This idea that grey areas are the new black needs to be challenged. We are not talking about difficult philosophical or social issues here. A climbing area can be completely bolt protected as long as thats understood by climbers. It already happens everywhere around the world. It is not well understood here in Victoria and that's what I am taking issue with. Many climbers here, and visitors, want SOLELY bolted areas to go to . It is not incompatible with other ethics at other areas. All it requires is a paradigm shift.

>You are entitled to your opinion but please don’t decide for me, as I
>would like to do that for myself.

you can decide not to go to the bolt protected area

>Your perception of Aid climbing demonstrates your lack of ‘depth of experience’
>within that medium. I think you will find from participating in hard aid
>at an appropriate location another perspective. I would suggest that my
>history of posts on the topic gives quite the opposite to your perception;
>inasmuch as the journey is extremely important.
>Macciza is not alone, and your credibility is diminished when you deride
>things that you perhaps do not fully understand

My credibility is already shot by even reading this site!!:)
I happen to know plenty about aid climbing, despite any preconception you may have about my experience. Although I haven't done the hardest aid routes I have extensive knowledge of the equipment,techniques and motivation for aid climbing. I may have sarcastically portrayed aid climbers as peak baggers but I have a point to make about hypocrisy with climbing ethics/values.

Certain types of climbing styles and climbers are given way too much precedence and moral authority without questioning it. Humans have a propensity for accepting nominal authority and tradition without thinking about it. Religion is a great example of how meme structures evolve and propagate in society.

There is a well entrenched perception that aid/trad climbers are more morally pure than other climbers.I fail to see how aid climbers can consider rows of (once shiny) bolts acceptable and then wail about bolted free climbs. Don't know if you have ever climbed at Yosemite, but aid climbing there is practically vandalism. Once closed seams broken open, free climbs now on pin scarred cracks and chipping whenever necessary to get between blank sections. That is the glorious past and ethical model that you want hold up as something to be cherished and maintained??

I've got to go to exam now. But I'll be back........